Penitent Sinners Who Offered Their Lives To Christ And Became Saints

[BarbTherese]

Just to add about St Maria Goretti... I read a really moving true story about a nun. She was raped, maybe gang raped and then got pregnant and had to leave her community to take care of the baby. Can't imagine what she went through. In addition to the crime against her dignity as a human being it was also sacrilige because she's a nun. Yet she speaks with extraordinary forgiveness for the man and sees the child with so much love. She says it was like the child was the way such a terrible event was turned to good instead. Very pro life but her charity and forgiveness is extraordinary. It seems like God took something horrible that happened, that He didn't want, but He gave her graces to deal with it in such a way that she has grown in holiness... And the child sounds like such a sweet little kid - she teaches the child and others about forgiveness and the child isn't made to feel like they're part of the problem, but a gift from God. (Because its not the child's fault who his father is... His ultimate Father is God). I was really moved by that story. I'm sure she protested just like St Maria but the man is stronger physically and continued assaulting her despite her fighting. Alessandro was looking for consent and then got mad and did something else that's horrible.

About sin though... Like not rape but chosen sexual sin... I have been thinking also of St Mary of Egypt. She has quite a story! A priest once told me its not the quantity (how long you have been Catholic) but how well.   And there are people who have always been Catholic but began practicing only later on... Because they had to make it their own and go through that process but maybe rebelled along the way. That's very common.

​I have read (in our Catholic newspaper years back) a similar story of a nun raped and then pregnant who left her religious order to mother her child.  It was indeed a very moving story.

I have read too that Faith that goes through a crisis is richer and stronger for the experience.  That seems quite logical to me.  Although I fully concede that untried Faith (through Grace) can be just as rich if not richer etc. than a Faith that has been tried.  But I do know for myself that when problems come along, I am always able to say to myself "This too will pass" simply because of past experiences. The lessons of the past will always speak to the now and the future. "This too will pass" wont lessen the struggle or any related suffering, but it does highlight trust in Hope - it is a light beckoning at the end of a tunnel.  Others might be granted the Grace to say "This too will pass" without any previous experiences.  "All is Grace" (St Therese of Lisieux).  I have a saying for myself "I can only play the cards I am dealt" meaning that whatever is happening in my life on any and all levels, it is that with which I must deal and journey reliant on God and His Grace which never fails.  I can fail, but not The Lord and His Grace.  One may or may not be conscious that Grace and The Lord is right in the struggle and fight with one, but Faith knows it is so despite all things.

About sin though... Like not rape but chosen sexual sin... I have been thinking also of St Mary of Egypt. She has quite a story! A priest once told me its not the quantity (how long you have been Catholic) but how well.   And there are people who have always been Catholic but began practicing only later on... Because they had to make it their own and go through that process but maybe rebelled along the way. That's very common.

Very true.  I believe too that the process of failing and repenting is all a part of being a good and faithful Catholic, no matter how serious or not serious one's sin or failing. 

Edited April 27, 2015 by BarbaraTherese

[seamoylantd]

Perhaps as a convert to Catholicism, you are in danger of putting nuns on a pedestal. Nuns are only women like ourselves. They have nervous breakdowns, fall in love, leave their Orders etc. Even Mother Teresa suffered terribly with Unbelief and Lack of Faith. These are the Crosses Our Lord sends us.

[seamoylantd]

Perhaps as a convert to Catholicism, you are in danger of putting nuns on a pedestal. Nuns are only women like ourselves. They have nervous breakdowns, fall in love, leave their Orders etc. Even Mother Teresa suffered terribly with Unbelief and Lack of Faith. These are the Crosses Our Lord sends us. Plus she was accused of being on love with her Confessor and of sheep-stealing the novices from other Orders. All by her fellow-sisters. Plus they wouldn't oblige her by allowing her the use of a  building she had her eye on when she left  to found her Mission. You should read her letters. They are harrowing .

Also, Delores Hart, the actress, the actress who became a nun, struggled with letting go of her world also.

Even the Virgin Mary struggled at the start of her life serving God. The only one who believed her was Cousin Elizabeth. Joseph thought she was an adulteress.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Perhaps as a convert to Catholicism, you are in danger of putting nuns on a pedestal. Nuns are only women like ourselves. They have nervous breakdowns, fall in love, leave their Orders etc. Even Mother Teresa suffered terribly with Unbelief and Lack of Faith. These are the Crosses Our Lord sends us. Plus she was accused of being on love with her Confessor and of sheep-stealing the novices from other Orders. All by her fellow-sisters. Plus they wouldn't oblige her by allowing her the use of a  building she had her eye on when she left  to found her Mission. You should read her letters. They are harrowing .

Also, Delores Hart, the actress, the actress who became a nun, struggled with letting go of her world also.

Even the Virgin Mary struggled at the start of her life serving God. The only one who believed her was Cousin Elizabeth. Joseph thought she was an adulteress.

I don't mean that all nuns are necessarily holy but that their vocation is so holy that when I discern it I feel unworthy... Even though there are nuns who fall in love and leave their orders, they really shouldn't. That is not faithfulness to a vocation. I don't believe that Mother Teresa struggled with a lack of faith, I think she was going through the dark night of the soul possibly of course she must have suffered much from the accusations... I didn't know she was accused of all that. However of course I don't believe they're true. Sorry if it seems like I'm debating your points, possibly I'm misunderstanding I agree with you that nuns aren't perfect people but if I become a nun I want to be faithful. With Our Lady, I don't think she struggled rather suffered... She did suffer a lot though. I think the traditional understanding is not that St Joseph thought she's an adulteress. He knew that she is holy, perhaps couldn't figure out what happened with her pregnancy and suffered in his mind but didn't doubt her virtue. Then his suffering was feeling unworthy to be the guardian of the Queen of Heaven. That's just what I read in some Saints and mystics revelations and old books on St Joseph as an interesting point! Cause I didn't know before God bless!

[MarysLittleFlower]

Perhaps as a convert to Catholicism, you are in danger of putting nuns on a pedestal. Nuns are only women like ourselves. They have nervous breakdowns, fall in love, leave their Orders etc. Even Mother Teresa suffered terribly with Unbelief and Lack of Faith. These are the Crosses Our Lord sends us. Plus she was accused of being on love with her Confessor and of sheep-stealing the novices from other Orders. All by her fellow-sisters. Plus they wouldn't oblige her by allowing her the use of a  building she had her eye on when she left  to found her Mission. You should read her letters. They are harrowing .

Also, Delores Hart, the actress, the actress who became a nun, struggled with letting go of her world also.

Even the Virgin Mary struggled at the start of her life serving God. The only one who believed her was Cousin Elizabeth. Joseph thought she was an adulteress.

I don't mean that all nuns are necessarily holy but that their vocation is so holy that when I discern it I feel unworthy... Even though there are nuns who fall in love and leave their orders, they really shouldn't. That is not faithfulness to a vocation. I don't believe that Mother Teresa struggled with a lack of faith, I think she was going through the dark night of the soul possibly of course she must have suffered much from the accusations... I didn't know she was accused of all that. However of course I don't believe they're true. Sorry if it seems like I'm debating your points, possibly I'm misunderstanding I agree with you that nuns aren't perfect people but if I become a nun I want to be faithful. With Our Lady, I don't think she struggled rather suffered... She did suffer a lot though. I think the traditional understanding is not that St Joseph thought she's an adulteress. He knew that she is holy, perhaps couldn't figure out what happened with her pregnancy and suffered in his mind but didn't doubt her virtue. Then his suffering was feeling unworthy to be the guardian of the Queen of Heaven. That's just what I read in some Saints and mystics revelations and old books on St Joseph as an interesting point! Cause I didn't know before God bless!

[NadaTeTurbe]

Beatitude, I'm happy to learn that Brother CHarles can be canonized ! The next time I need help, I will pray him, who know ! I'm reading his life (given by the LIttle sisters of Jesus. you're right, they are lovely  ), what an exemple. 

Mary : I can understand you with the other catholic.... Sometimes when I heard my friend, I felt guilty to love my family, because they vote socialist, and all... And one time I said it to a friend, and she told me "Well, ME I love your family even if they are socialist !" I had a big smile after that. THe harder for me, is that I received my religious education from very Vatican II institution (Action Catholique, Jeunesse OUvrière Chrétienne...), and them, by new communities. My first day, I said "I'm from the JOC..." "They still exist ? I thought they died after the 70's..." Well but now, we know each other, and we make jokes about it :D I knew of the story of this nun. It's beautifull. There was a woman in my family, she was raped during the war and had a child after that. We call her the lioness, not only because she fought hard during the war, but also because she was like a lioness for her child, she protected him. I wish I had know her. 
I practised judaïsm during a time and I liked that nobody care about my past. I regret that I have been in a wrong religion (even if we share belief), but it consolidate my faith, and it teach me the importance to not have idol. 

Seam : I agree with you about puting nuns on a pedestal. I visited nuns today (little sisters of jesus), and I was surprised how human they were, until I remembered that... we're all human ! A little sister told me "our vocation is to be human trying to live a holy life, and it can be your vocation, now. It's the vocation of everyone !"

[seamoylantd]

Mary; that's fine. I am so happy that you are Catholic and want to be a Nun. You are blesses blessed blessed. I am totally supportive and if I can be of any help, let me know. Please don't forget me in your prayers if you join the Sisters.

[MarysLittleFlower]

Mary; that's fine. I am so happy that you are Catholic and want to be a Nun. You are blesses blessed blessed. I am totally supportive and if I can be of any help, let me know. Please don't forget me in your prayers if you join the Sisters.

Thank you for the kind response, please pray for me too God bless you!

[Swami Mommy]

MarysLittleFlower, please don't let regret over your past behavior shape your understanding of the deeper symbolic meaning of the vow of chastity.  To me, chastity has as its underpinnings a consecrated commitment to free oneself from the identification of oneself as the mortal body, so as to redirect one's attention to and identification with That which is the unchangeable, unborn and undying spark of Divine Love within the human heart. Think of your past actions as the learning curve you needed to explore all the ways that personal human love and physical connection, though great gifts, are ultimately only a small taste of the impersonal field of awareness that has its source in Divine Love and which excludes NOTHING.  Chastity, in effect, is a way to focus on the macro rather than the micro--to respond with undifferentiated Love to the entire world as 'One Thing' (and including your own self as part of that indivisible wholeness!) rather than as separate, disparate parts.

Edited June 3, 2015 by Swami Mommy

[marigold]

 I'd just like to say it's been great reading through this thread Aside from the other topics mentioned, ‌@NadaTeTurbe and @MarysLittleFlower I identified a lot with what you both said about being converts and loving the culture of big families while at the same time feeling like you don't fit in. One of my flatmates grew up Orthodox and we talk a lot about the different outlooks our upbringings have given us. And I have to say that, for all the difficulties in my life because of choosing the faith as an adult, I don't think I would change it.

 

 

 

Edited June 3, 2015 by marigold
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[veritasluxmea]

To me, chastity has as its underpinnings a consecrated commitment to free oneself from the identification of oneself as the mortal body, so as to redirect one's attention to and identification with That which is the unchangeable, unborn and undying spark of Divine Love within the human heart. 

 No. No matter how chaste you are- you will always be human. You will always have a mortal body (excluding the short time we're separated from it before the Resurrection of the dead). You will always be who you are- male, female, you. Body and soul. In fact true chastity is about becoming more freely human. Chastity is not about "rising above" your sexual nature or something, it's about finding fulfillment of who you are, body and soul, sexual nature included, in Christ alone. (People in marriages do this too, but in a different way.) Yes, it can be hard and it can seem like you're "just saying no" and fighting against your passions, but that's because they're out of order. (people in marriage have to do that too). True chastity is not about just "not having sex," it's about starting heaven on earth, where no one will be married anyways. It's just getting a "head start," so to speak. That's why non-virgins or people who've made sexual mistakes CAN be a religious sister. Christ never stops calling his people to the virtue of chastity. 

Catholic celibacy and virginity is hard to explain, but this book covers it much better than I ever can. Just know that the idea of "disidentifying" yourself from your body is poisonous and NOT Catholic. It's about finding the fulfillment of your mortal body. 

http://www.amazon.com/And-You-Are-Christs-Virginity/dp/0898701619

Think of your past actions as the learning curve you needed to explore all the ways that personal human love and physical connection, though great gifts, are ultimately only a small taste of the impersonal field of awareness that has its source in Divine Love and which excludes NOTHING.  

No. it sounds like you're suggesting they are "learning curves" that are somehow ok if you learn your lesson. It's not. The good news is that Jesus can transform your past experiences into something beautiful for Him and His church- think of how in His glorified body He still bears the wounds of His passion. He is able to take things that shouldn't happen (abuse, death, sin) but are going to happen anyways- and transform us through them into something better and greater. He uses them to bring us closer and into intimacy with Him. That is the only value and good thing about them- and it only exists because of Him, it's all Him. But that doesn't mean they should be there, or that He wanted them to happen.

​

[marigold]

Yes ^^^

[beatitude]

 No. No matter how chaste you are- you will always be human. You will always have a mortal body (excluding the short time we're separated from it before the Resurrection of the dead). You will always be who you are- male, female, you. Body and soul. In fact true chastity is about becoming more freely human. Chastity is not about "rising above" your sexual nature or something, it's about finding fulfillment of who you are, body and soul, sexual nature included, in Christ alone. (People in marriages do this too, but in a different way.) Yes, it can be hard and it can seem like you're "just saying no" and fighting against your passions, but that's because they're out of order. (people in marriage have to do that too). True chastity is not about just "not having sex," it's about starting heaven on earth, where no one will be married anyways. It's just getting a "head start," so to speak. That's why non-virgins or people who've made sexual mistakes CAN be a religious sister. Christ never stops calling his people to the virtue of chastity. 

Catholic celibacy and virginity is hard to explain, but this book covers it much better than I ever can. Just know that the idea of "disidentifying" yourself from your body is poisonous and NOT Catholic. It's about finding the fulfillment of your mortal body. 

http://www.amazon.com/And-You-Are-Christs-Virginity/dp/0898701619

 

No. it sounds like you're suggesting they are "learning curves" that are somehow ok if you learn your lesson. It's not. The good news is that Jesus can transform your past experiences into something beautiful for Him and His church- think of how in His glorified body He still bears the wounds of His passion. He is able to take things that shouldn't happen (abuse, death, sin) but are going to happen anyways- and transform us through them into something better and greater. He uses them to bring us closer and into intimacy with Him. That is the only value and good thing about them- and it only exists because of Him, it's all Him. But that doesn't mean they should be there, or that He wanted them to happen.

​

​Your last paragraph is beautiful and almost brought me to tears. I needed to read that. Thank you.

I also want to add something to one of your comments - "True chastity is not about just not having sex". I learned a powerful and painful lesson about this when my ex-boyfriend (who remained a very close friend even after we split up) got a new girlfriend. By this point I was already in formation with my secular institute in the hope of one day making vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience. Even though I had made this choice freely and happily, and I love the spirituality of my institute and all that it stands for, I was still overwhelmed with envy and loneliness. Now that he had a girlfriend, I was no longer such an important part of his life - he didn't have nearly as much time for me now, and she was the first person he turned to for everything. I wasn't seriously expecting that he should stay single for the rest of his life just so that he could be available at the end of the phone line if I wanted to ring him up at midnight for a spontaneous chat, but the loss of the ability to do that still hurt. That's when I realised that the hardest thing about chastity is not absence of sex, it's knowing that you're highly unlikely ever to be #1 in anybody's life, the way a husband is for a wife, or a child to a parent. And this is part of the call to consecrated single life in general and spirituality of my institute in particular - we were founded in the footsteps of Blessed Charles de Foucauld to lead the hidden life of Jesus at Nazareth, before he set out on those three years of ministry. Part of this means being content to live hidden and humble and not to be distinguished as 'special' by anyone in any way. That's the hardest thing. Right now I am struggling because the best friend I've ever had did something wrong and hurtful, and this is another lesson to me about chastity - because I'm not called to marriage, I place a particularly high value on my friendships (which is natural and good), to the point where it makes it hard for me to bear disappointments delivered by my friends (which is not good). Chastity is teaching me new ways of relating to people, better and kinder ways, and at its heart is total trust and dependence on God. You don't have to be a virgin to cultivate that. It's about much more than the body.

[MarysLittleFlower]

MarysLittleFlower, please don't let regret over your past behavior shape your understanding of the deeper symbolic meaning of the vow of chastity.  To me, chastity has as its underpinnings a consecrated commitment to free oneself from the identification of oneself as the mortal body, so as to redirect one's attention to and identification with That which is the unchangeable, unborn and undying spark of Divine Love within the human heart. Think of your past actions as the learning curve you needed to explore all the ways that personal human love and physical connection, though great gifts, are ultimately only a small taste of the impersonal field of awareness that has its source in Divine Love and which excludes NOTHING.  Chastity, in effect, is a way to focus on the macro rather than the micro--to respond with undifferentiated Love to the entire world as 'One Thing' (and including your own self as part of that indivisible wholeness!) rather than as separate, disparate parts.

Swami Mommy, do I understand correctly that your religion is Hindu? I would see it differently in a way as a Catholic.. The issue is not the mortal body but concupiscence - from the fall. Concupiscence draws to sin which still remains a free choice. The things I did in the past were not according to how God planned our unfallen human nature and were against His law so they were sins.. Now that I've been forgiven of them I try to live chastely. For me chastity doesn't require me to distance myself from the physical body or human nature, but to direct it properly with grace. if a person is married they can be chaste without celibacy since they are united to a spouse by God. Those who are unmarried but want to be, live chastely by staying celibate till marriage. Those who give up marriage for Christ, as I feel drawn to doing, live o​ut more directly the reality that marriage represents - the chaste union of Christ and the Church. Eventually in Heaven everyone there will live this reality in the most direct way, which is why there's nono human marriage in Heaven. But those who give themselves to Christ in this way (on earth or Heaven) stay human and if they are on earth and have a body (or after the Resurrection of the dead) - their physical nature is not a problem and they don't have to ignore or forge​t it  only fight concupiscence... And in Heaven and after the Resurrection, there won't be any concupiscence at all. It is not that Christ unites Himself to me in a way that is only connected to my soul - it is spiritual but the body, emotions, etc, are also me and Jesus comes into us in Communion substantially... He has a body too its just something that remedies concupiscence and its pure and chaste... I guess what I'm saying is that as Catholics the problem is not the body itself and spiritual things can even affect physical nature and remain themselves. We are not just souls inhabiting bodies that are not truly us - we are soul and body, though the good of the soul is superior. Hope that makes sense! I just wanted to share the perspective with which I approach this topic. My regret over the past needs to be balanced by trust in God's Mercy and He can turn it to acts of reparation and love. God bless you!

[MarysLittleFlower]

​Your last paragraph is beautiful and almost brought me to tears. I needed to read that. Thank you.

I also want to add something to one of your comments - "True chastity is not about just not having sex". I learned a powerful and painful lesson about this when my ex-boyfriend (who remained a very close friend even after we split up) got a new girlfriend. By this point I was already in formation with my secular institute in the hope of one day making vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience. Even though I had made this choice freely and happily, and I love the spirituality of my institute and all that it stands for, I was still overwhelmed with envy and loneliness. Now that he had a girlfriend, I was no longer such an important part of his life - he didn't have nearly as much time for me now, and she was the first person he turned to for everything. I wasn't seriously expecting that he should stay single for the rest of his life just so that he could be available at the end of the phone line if I wanted to ring him up at midnight for a spontaneous chat, but the loss of the ability to do that still hurt. That's when I realised that the hardest thing about chastity is not absence of sex, it's knowing that you're highly unlikely ever to be #1 in anybody's life, the way a husband is for a wife, or a child to a parent. And this is part of the call to consecrated single life in general and spirituality of my institute in particular - we were founded in the footsteps of Blessed Charles de Foucauld to lead the hidden life of Jesus at Nazareth, before he set out on those three years of ministry. Part of this means being content to live hidden and humble and not to be distinguished as 'special' by anyone in any way. That's the hardest thing. Right now I am struggling because the best friend I've ever had did something wrong and hurtful, and this is another lesson to me about chastity - because I'm not called to marriage, I place a particularly high value on my friendships (which is natural and good), to the point where it makes it hard for me to bear disappointments delivered by my friends (which is not good). Chastity is teaching me new ways of relating to people, better and kinder ways, and at its heart is total trust and dependence on God. You don't have to be a virgin to cultivate that. It's about much more than the body.

I can so relate.. I have been learning the lesson this year of relying only on Jesus and I'm still learning and still have so much to learn! Lol! I get too attached to my friends too and then I realised I won't be number one in their life because its not that type of relationship. So I'm trying to learn for Jesus to be number one in everything for me and to be content with only Him... There is the suffering part (one holy soul called it the "crucifying duty of loving only You" (Him), on the other side theres something so beautiful and sweet in the idea that - no one but Jesus will ever have my heart. I can serve Him in all but I'm to be only His. The very intimacy of this is so beautiful that one would want to give up all for Him... Even if other times there's pain from our weakness.