Lilllabettt Posted August 8, 2014 Author Share Posted August 8, 2014 Watching the movie now. i appreciate your follow through. lets debrief when you're done. seriously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IcePrincessKRS Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) how do you feel about intervention in Syria? I'll be honest, I don't really like the idea of intervention in either place. My stomach feels all knotty thinking about it. That's probably because I'd be looking at my husband going over there and the worry that comes with a deployment. But, ISIS is storming Syria, too, right? I said "over there" and mainly meant Iraq, but the enemy we'd be fighting is ISIS and to remove them as a threat would mean fighting in Syria, too. They'd have to be asking for our help, though, I don't think we should just roll in (anywhere) uninvited. Edited August 8, 2014 by IcePrincessKRS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) i appreciate your follow through. lets debrief when you're done. seriously. The debriefing is now scheduled. Edited August 8, 2014 by FetusPriest387 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 You mean should the political class once again increase its power and enrich certain cronies while pretending to fight evil? No. Smedley Butler was right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 What makes you think that a US intervention in Iraq would be more effective than our last very recent intervention there? Seems to me that things in Iraq are a lot worse than they were prior to Operation "Iraqi freedom." Saddam was a real peach and all but at least Christians were protected, right? Do you suffer the illusion that the people who have power to make things go boom are primarily concerned with humanitarian issues? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 I remember saying repeatedly that it didn't matter how long we stayed in Iraq, that as soon as we left, they'd have a civil war. By intervention, I mean get the innocents out. If later peace is established, they can go back. If not, keep them alive and resettled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted August 8, 2014 Author Share Posted August 8, 2014 You mean should the political class once again increase its power and enrich certain cronies while pretending to fight evil? No. Smedley Butler was right. What makes you think that a US intervention in Iraq would be more effective than our last very recent intervention there? Seems to me that things in Iraq are a lot worse than they were prior to Operation "Iraqi freedom." Saddam was a real peach and all but at least Christians were protected, right? Do you suffer the illusion that the people who have power to make things go boom are primarily concerned with humanitarian issues? So ... you all do not support intervention to stop the genocide of Christians in the Iraqi civil war or intervention to stop the Rwandan civil war or the Syrian civil war. Correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 So ... you all do not support intervention to stop the genocide of Christians in the Iraqi civil war or intervention to stop the Rwandan civil war or the Syrian civil war. Correct? All I know is I really want to kick this general's arse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 A mission to go in and try to evacuate people that are in danger and get them to refugee centers could be laudable if executed correctly. That is difficult to do, of course. It should be a UN mission rather than a US-only mission, and it should involve many of that country's neighbors. Perhaps if not the UN, the Arab League could help. Ultimately there is not an easy solution, some black and white "we could just make everything okay this if Obama would just give the order". It's a complex situation. suddenly Turkey is helping out the Kurds, that could be a beneficial development. A mission to reconquer the country would be idiotic. Nothing has changed about the fact that a United States occupation was never a good idea and would not be successful now. Nothing has changed about the fact that the intervention of the United States in this region is the exact reason there is a genocide happening right now. And certainly nothing has changed about the fact that aiding the Syrian rebels would, in many ways, aid and continue to help ISIS to strengthen... of course ISIS is different than the FSA, but their causes would be convergent there and it'd be difficult if not impossible to assist one without in some ways assisting the other. Ultimately, there is an extreme culpability on the part of America's interventionists for the fact that this genocide is happening. The fact that some of those interventionists are now trying to use this scenario to justify the idea we should have MORE military interventionism is unbelievable to me. Yeah, sure, last time we intervened we caused a huge mess that led to this horrible situation... but THIS time it'll be smooth and we'll be successful... even though again and again in the last decade we have example after example of our interventionism causing horrible chaos. how about we be more cautious and not repeat the failed policies of the last decade... if we can find a way to surgically attempt to aid a caravan of evacuation for the people in danger, that'd be a good idea. but trying to reconquer the country would be madness, and it would cause more problems than it would solve if it follows the pattern of all our interventions in the last decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted August 8, 2014 Author Share Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) ETA: this cut is better http://youtu.be/Ms_-2Z2VByM?t=4m make sure you watch up until the camera scans the bus (after the nuns are separated according to color) thats you on the bus, America. ETA: in case you are wondering what is going on in the scene, this is the UN evacuating Europeans from Kigali, leaving the Rwandans in the hotel they were guarding to be slaughtered in the civil war. Edited August 8, 2014 by Lilllabettt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 like I said, if we could get in to evacuate people, it would be laudable. an actual re-invasion though... that would help no one. the increased amount of death it would bring upon innocent people in that country would far outweigh any good we would accomplish. this simplistic appeals to the movie Hotel Rwanda do not do justice to the complexity of the situation. and again, the blood of these people is on the hands of those made the decision for the last invasion of Iraq. This genocide started during our tenure as occupiers, it didn't just start with ISIS, though it has gotten more pronounced now. The unintended consequences of a renewed invasion of Iraq would be extremely devastating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 (edited) ETA: this cut is better http://youtu.be/Ms_-2Z2VByM?t=4m make sure you watch up until the camera scans the bus (after the nuns are separated according to color) thats you on the bus, America. ETA: in case you are wondering what is going on in the scene, this is the UN evacuating Europeans from Kigali, leaving the Rwandans in the hotel they were guarding to be slaughtered in the civil war. Why is it that America and the UN go out of their way to invade countries they have no business invading, but when it comes to stop genocide and saving the lives of hundreds of thousands of people, they do nothing? As an aside, I really respect that the priest stayed, even though he probably could have gotten away with getting on the bus. Edited August 8, 2014 by FetusPriest387 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted August 8, 2014 Author Share Posted August 8, 2014 Why is it that America and the UN go out of their way to invade countries they have no business invading, but when it comes to stop genocide and saving the lives of hundreds of thousands of people, they do nothing? As an aside, I really respect that the priest stayed, even though he probably could have gotten away with getting on the bus. he didn't stay though. He got into the red car that was leading the evacuation caravan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 he didn't stay though. He got into the red car that was leading the evacuation caravan Unfortunate. He should have stayed with the people. Hindsight is 20/20, of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seven77 Posted August 8, 2014 Share Posted August 8, 2014 We need to clean up the flippin' mess we made in Iraq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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