Clare Brigid Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I can see where being transgender would have problems for a community in that transsexuals need to take hormone therapy for the rest of their lives, after the surgery. That would be a considerable expense for any community to underwrite. Estrogen replacement therapy is remarkably inexpensive. It is testosterone therapy that runs into the hundreds of dollars a month. Nevertheless, if reports are accurate, the Vatican has instructed that transsexuals may not enter religious life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 In terms of someone being intersex - I can't see why this would be some sort of bar to religious life. In terms of transexuals - I can see why some communities may struggle but this probably doesn't mean it's impossible either. It's been stated before, and I think it needs to be stated again: Intersex and transsexual are not the same thing. I can see where being transgender would have problems for a community in that transsexuals need to take hormone therapy for the rest of their lives, after the surgery. That would be a considerable expense for any community to underwrite. What? Hormone therapy isn't a legitimate reason for why transsexuals wouldn't be compatible with an order opposite their birth sex. Transsexuals would be "barred" from religious life for one reason: They aren't a female (or a male) just because they're had a sex re-assignment surgery and identify with the sex. Therefore, they can't enter a religious house for a sex opposite their real sex, like everyone else. I think people who suffer from transgenderism can and do have vocations, compatible with their birth sex. As with all mental illnesses, care should be taken by both the discerner and the order. Extreme care. Nevertheless, if reports are accurate, the Vatican has instructed that transsexuals may not enter religious life. Yes. Maybe this should be moved to the debate table? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DameAgnes Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I am wondering why it has been made public? Because she has a book to sell? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DameAgnes Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 They, Carthusians, historically did - because they would also get a stole. But I'm not sure if they do anymore. The Benedictines of St. Ceciliar Abbey in Ryde, UK still do this and they include the stole. I believe the Benedictines at Regina Laudis also do it but in an unusual way and I don't know if they use the stole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DameAgnes Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 This article is directly coped from the link for IF Press as shown in a previous post. Here goes..... London, ON. Consecrated maiden Tia Michelle Pesando, a hermaphrodite in the process of becoming a Carmelite sister (and eventually a nun) has released a book pointing out common fallacies regarding Biblical understanding and offering encouragement to the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender community. Titled Why God Doesn't Hate You, the book also reveals elements of her own journey and the story behind her recent suggestion to the Vatican that the Church reinstate a form of same-sex union which it apparently practiced in the Middle Ages. Tia was assigned the male gender marker since birth (like most classical hermaphrodites), and videos documenting her transition have been viewed by millions. At priestly recommendation she is currently undergoing the procedure to join the Carmelite Third Order; her plan is to remain in this order while she is at home helping to take care of her parents, and then perhaps become a fully-fledged Second Order cloistered Carmelite nun. She has done years of research into some of the most controversial issues facing Christianity and participated in the Vatican's recent Synod on the Family. Though Tia Michelle is a Roman Catholic, her message is for all denominations of Christianity. Anglican Dean of Theology William J. Danaher Jr. has even stated that "This book will change the world." So much wrong, here, but this leaps out at me: "and participated in the Vatican's recent Synod on the Family." How did she do that, since the synod will only begin in October 2014? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vee Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Because she has a book to sell? my thoughts exactly. my thoughts and what Ive found on her social media Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNJM Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 The Regina Laudis Benedictines do not receive a stole. I was at their last Consecration and it was beautiful. The Carthusian Nuns receive a stole, a Maniple, a Ring and a Crown. It is my understanding that at their Consecration they are ordained as Deaconnesses. Before everybody gets scandalized; please remember that the Carthusians have retained many of the customs of the early Church, and that includes Eastern practices as well. However, I must make the point as explained to me by a Bishop - they are allowed to read and offer a "homily" on the Gospel only within the community. Supposedly, in addition to the Eastern rites incorporated into their life, this was also for practical reasons as part of the Carthusian charism asks for the Charterhouse (Monasteries) to be away from civilization as much as possible, preferably in the mountains. You can imagine that there were many days when their Carthusian chaplain (as required per each Nun's Charterhouse) could not make it to Mass. (In high mountains, with extremely bad storms, I doubt anybody can leave their dwelling place at all). In those cases, the Nuns do the Liturgy of the Word and the designated Nun would read the Gospel, and give Communion (which had already been consecrated). According to the Bishop I spoke with: if a nun left the Order, she would not be allowed to do these things "In the world." I hope this makes sense. There is a German ex-Carthusian nun who wrote a book in German about her experiences. I am hoping we will see it soon in English! Regarding Tia; I can only offer prayers and rest my heart on the Mercy of Jesus. We are warned again and again not to judge; we just don't know what is going on within someone's soul - only God does. I trust she will find the right guidance along her way, and the Carmelites are very wise in their lives and discernment process. It's too bad she wrote a book, I'm sure some of her words will be misconstrued. Blessings, Rose Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedictus Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 It's been stated before, and I think it needs to be stated again: Intersex and transsexual are not the same thing. where did I say they were the same thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veritasluxmea Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 where did I say they were the same thing? You didn't; I was agreeing with you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bride of the Lamb Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 So much wrong, here, but this leaps out at me: "and participated in the Vatican's recent Synod on the Family." How did she do that, since the synod will only begin in October 2014? As you said, so much wrong: "consecrated maiden" (which consecrated virgin would address herself to be a "consecrated maiden"? When I think of maiden, I think of Robin Hood's Maid Marian), "carmelite sister" (when it is the third order) and the ghost of the synod yet to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hemma Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Please note that the Deaconesses of the early church are not to be understood as female Deacons. As far as I'm informed. @Rose: I would be interested in the name of the German ex-carthusian nun or the original title of her book! Thank you:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarysLittleFlower Posted August 10, 2014 Share Posted August 10, 2014 (edited) I'm also a bit confused as to whether the article means that Tia is a transgendered person, or intersex. There's a difference between someone being born as a male and then trying to obtain female characteristics through surgery etc,, and someone who was born with characteristics of both genders, assigned a male gender just out of custom, and then it turned out that she's actually female and went through hormone therapy as a treatment. I'm not going to say anything about Tia particularly though - I don't know the situation, and I'm not her spiritual director, and only God knows the soul. I hope that everything will work out the way it should according to God's Will. :) am I correct in understanding that if someone is intersex and decides to join a religious order, that would not be an impediment if the gender they describe themselves to be, is their true gender? My understanding is that the impediment is if someone tries to say they have another gender than the one they physically have..? (because of the relation of body and soul and because gender has a physical component and is not only interior, as many modern people seem to think).. any thoughts on this? (not commenting on Tia here, only in general) Edited August 10, 2014 by MarysLittleFlower Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mantellata Posted August 15, 2014 Share Posted August 15, 2014 If you look at the article you will see that she is the one who wrote the article... so there can't be media "spin" only her own view... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DemonSlayer Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 (edited) Looks like she has a Youtube channel, not intending to watch any of the videos, but she calls herself a transexual and there are time lapse videos of her turning male to female... :unsure: https://www.youtube.com/user/TSLittleMermaid/videos Edited August 25, 2014 by DemonSlayer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dairygirl4u2c Posted August 25, 2014 Share Posted August 25, 2014 so what if someone is born half female and half male? can they pick whether to be a priest or a nun? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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