Connotation Of The Word "pastoral"

[bardegaulois]

This one's been vexing me for a few days. I'm of course not looking for a dictionary definition or anything of the sort, as that's easy enough to look up. I'm rather inquiring about what people mean precisely when they refer to a clergyman as "pastoral" or a "good pastor."

Dictionary-wise (putting aside those definitions related to shepherds or herdsmen), one might see that "pastoral" means related to the giving of spiritual advice or counsel. Now, this is confusing me because the most excellent spiritual counsels I've ever received have been from priests who likely wouldn't be considered "pastoral." Wise, indeed, and holy, yes, and I'd say very authentically pastoral, but it seems like "pastoral" is reserved in both common and journalistic parlance for a particular type of personality or style. The common elements that I've seen among those priests widely considered "pastoral" are:

1. outgoing and genial and very ingratiating (no introverts allowed, apparently)
2. somewhat fast and loose with doctrine and liturgy (homilies tend toward platitudes; Masses often tend toward the bare minimum to be valid)
3. trend-followers
4. rather shallow and unreflective

When people trumpet loudly about "pastoral" types, they obviously mean something more than one who advises well on spiritual matters. Is there a particular connotation or subtext to this idea? And how did it come about?

[Basilisa Marie]

So, "pastoral" has become one of many buzzwords in Catholic Land. 

 

In the best sense, pastoral is used to talk about someone who does a really good job of helping people through tough experiences, who is especially good at the virtue of prudence, and helps people become holy. In the worst sense, it's used to talk about someone who believes theology stops at "Jesus loves you," liturgy stops at arts and crafts, and that absolute truth isn't really a thing. 

 

"Pastoral" is sometimes contrasted with someone who is perceived to be coldly legalistic, overly dogmatic and authoritarian, with no mercy or compassion for difficulty. Which is also a gross generalization of someone who isn't as warm and cuddly as a typical "pastoral" caricature. Of course it all depends on the context, whether it's being used as a compliment or a complaint. A good pastor is someone who is a good spiritual physician for his flock, in whatever form that takes. 

 

A lot of this has to do with the fallout after Vatican II. See, most of the documents of the council speak in very general terms, trying to balance a lot of complexity. Some people took certain interpretations of them and ran with them in a direction that wasn't really envisioned by the council. Part of the council was a renewed understanding of the role of the laity, which in practice opened the door for them to play a bigger role in the Church. Another thing that happened was a shift in understanding regarding the popular perspective on the Church. By this I mean many people shifted from a very authoritarian, obedience and law based perspective of how the Church worked to something more about community, the universal call to holiness, focusing on living a life of virtue and not strictly focusing on rattling off a list of sins, etc. I'm speaking in incredibly broad terms here, to try to give you an idea of the general shift in thought that took place. Out of that grew today's idea of what it means to be "pastoral," both positively and negatively.  I really think it's a product of Vatican II. But what do the rest of y'all think? 

 

 

[cappie]

Wow, been a member here since September 2003 and I think this is the first time I have seen the word "pastoral" used as a pejorative term. :unsure:  

[dUSt]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Gv0H-vPoDc

[Amppax]

Wow, been a member here since September 2003 and I think this is the first time I have seen the word "pastoral" used as a pejorative term. :unsure:  

 

Well it's often used by those who want to write off Vatican II, for example "Oh, it was just a pastoral council." 

[Basilisa Marie]

Wow, been a member here since September 2003 and I think this is the first time I have seen the word "pastoral" used as a pejorative term. :unsure:  

 

Yeah, it's rather unfortunate. I know some people who use it to describe various ministers they don't think are 'strict' enough, etc. It comes down to the stupid "I'm a much better Catholic than you" nonsense. It's silly because nearly everyone wants a priest who is good at being pastoral. 

[Amppax]

A lot of this has to do with the fallout after Vatican II. See, most of the documents of the council speak in very general terms, trying to balance a lot of complexity. Some people took certain interpretations of them and ran with them in a direction that wasn't really envisioned by the council. Part of the council was a renewed understanding of the role of the laity, which in practice opened the door for them to play a bigger role in the Church. Another thing that happened was a shift in understanding regarding the popular perspective on the Church. By this I mean many people shifted from a very authoritarian, obedience and law based perspective of how the Church worked to something more about community, the universal call to holiness, focusing on living a life of virtue and not strictly focusing on rattling off a list of sins, etc. I'm speaking in incredibly broad terms here, to try to give you an idea of the general shift in thought that took place. Out of that grew today's idea of what it means to be "pastoral," both positively and negatively.  I really think it's a product of Vatican II. But what do the rest of y'all think? 

 

Well Pope St. John XXIII, in his opening address, talks about the council as a pastoral council. I just saw something yesterday about this, but for the life of me I can't remember where. Wait! Nope, I remembered. Patrick Madrid wrote a book on radical traditionalism, which I've recently been reading. There's a chapter that addresses the objection to the council I mentioned in my other comment. I'll have to go grab it when I get home. Because it has a couple of really good statements about a proper understanding of what the Holy Father meant when he talked about a "pastoral council." 

[bardegaulois]

Another interesting thing I note is that the meaning of pastoral seems somewhat dependent upon which syllable one stresses. When upon the first, one tends to mean the dictionary denotation. When upon the second, it's the caricature that Basilisa Marie and I spoke about--used as a snipe by the more traditional, but as fawning praise by those who want the Church to be something other than the Church. The way the secular press seems to adulate Pope Francis for being so "pastoral" seems like a case in point. The stress on the last syllable (pastorale) intends a literary or musical piece invoking rural life.

 

Coming from a rather traditional perspective myself, I find myself becoming very skeptical whenever a clergyman is described as pastoral due to the way that word has been misused.

[Lil Red]

many more conservative Catholics here in my town use the word "pastoral" as a pejorative, because some priests here have a tendency to "look the other way" when it comes to calling people out on their sin (well, not literally, but I hope you get the gist of what I'm saying) because it's the "pastoral" thing to do - because they don't want them to leave the Church completely. 

[Perigrina]

I most often use "pastoral" as a positive word. It means sensitive, tactful, good at communicating Church teaching, good people skills.  I use it for qualities that enhance and complement orthodoxy, not replace it.

[Lil Red]

I most often use "pastoral" as a positive word. It means sensitive, tactful, good at communicating Church teaching, good people skills.  I use it for qualities that enhance and complement orthodoxy, not replace it.

 

"You have reached your quota of positive votes for the day"
 

[Benedictus]

I've seen the word used both as a positive and as a negative, but mostly negative. So when someone says they want the priest to be able to make a pastoral decision in relation to a church issue it's often implied by some that this is 'in speak' for an opportunity to water down the teaching. To others it's a sign of a progressive move. Now I don't know if all priests 'get' this is how many lay people interpret the word when they say it.  Maybe this thread will explain to some priests why they get disapproval from some and smiles from others in their churches at the drop of a hat :hehe2:

Edited July 29, 2014 by Benedictus

[cappie]

I've been called "a very pastoral priest" for never objecting to people kneeling to receive Holy Communion, making confession available during Mass (subject to available priests) making the church available of Mass in the ExtraOrdinary Form. Re introducing and encouraging Benediction and Evening Prayer. It is for these "crimes" I am called pastoral, people should (I know they will not) be very careful in making general judgements.  :idontknow: