Why Is Transgender(ism ?) Homosexuality Not A Mental Disorder

[superblue]

Was listening to the radio the other day, and the topic briefly came up, about how equality is a double standard in regards to transgenders and homosexuals, meaning, those that support it, either want or demand that everyone else be either accepting of it and accept peoples views on the matter that do support it, but when it comes to those who are against , those people who are unaccepting, or just have a different view on the matter those people are not given respect by those who support or are of this topic... Thusly a caller chimed in with mental disorder on the matter, how those with multiple personalities are thusly not given a pass and special treatment to do what they want etc etc, they are just labeled as a mental disorder and they have to bite it, no one has to be accepting of them ..  AN I am roughly translating paraphrasing to get to the title of the thread....

 

Which now here we go,

 

Does the Church consider being a transgender person or homosexuality a mental disorder; why or why not.

 

Thusly, if the Church does consider both to be a mental disorder versus why doesn't the Church simply state that position publicly ? ( I assume for the Church to publicly label both such would be a P.R nightmare and would probably cause more problems than the issue is worth )

 

That is it, I got nothing more to add or rebuttle ( spell check )

[Semper Catholic]

Discrimination against those with mental disorders is also wrong.

Christians just need to get over their bigotry towards the LGBT community. At this point it's becoming laughable.

[Credo in Deum]

Discrimination against those with mental disorders is also wrong.

Christians just need to get over their bigotry towards the LGBT community. At this point it's becoming laughable.

 

Last time I checked impure acts like sodomy were prohibited regardless of sexuality, so the Church is fair in that she applies these laws to all persons.  The Church has been public in the case of homosexuality because LGBTQ community promotes these actions publicly as normal and legitimate expressions of love.   While I cannot speak for all Christians who hold signs like "God hates fags", which He does not, I cannot say that God is pleased with those (regardless of sexuality and religious affiliation) who obstinately sin against His commandments and His Church. 

[CrossCuT]

They dont see it as bigotry though (which imo is the laughable part). But its hard to reconcile beliefs that are bigotry because of course no one would consider themselves a bigot. Its a sticky subject and there is literally no way to find common ground. Youre essentially going to argue in circles.  

 

[KnightofChrist]

I don't think homosexuality and so called Transgenderism are comparable. Homosexuality is not a mental delusion. Transgenderism is a mental disorder, and it is classic example of a delusion. A person who suffers from it believes contrary to reality that they are someone that they in fact are not. Believing oneself to be male when one is female, or believing oneself to be female when one is actually male is really no different than people who think they are some famous person from history. If I believed I was Gen. George S. Patton when I am really <insert real name here> I would be suffering a delusion. It would not be bigotry for others to point out that I am not Gen. George S. Patton, and it would be better for my mental health if others would not enable and go along with my delusion. 

Edited July 24, 2014 by KnightofChrist

[CrossCuT]

Hmm, you bring up things I will have to ponder KoC. I guess I never thought of transgender as a delusion...which can have quite a negative connotation which irks me since I am a member of the kumbaya clan. But I appreciate the perspective!

[CatherineM]

It is as much an issue of body dismorphia as an anorexic weighing 90 pounds believing they are still too fat. In my mind, I'm still the tall athletic woman I was in my youth, instead of the overweight, stuped middle aged cripple I see in the mirror. I have come to grips with it by removing my mirrors. That's less invasive than removing body parts.

[Semper Catholic]

Last time I checked impure acts like sodomy were prohibited regardless of sexuality, so the Church is fair in that she applies these laws to all persons. The Church has been public in the case of homosexuality because LGBTQ community promotes these actions publicly as normal and legitimate expressions of love. While I cannot speak for all Christians who hold signs like "God hates fags", which He does not, I cannot say that God is pleased with those (regardless of sexuality and religious affiliation) who obstinately sin against His commandments and His Church.

Homosexuality=/=sodomy

[superblue]

I don't think homosexuality and so called Transgenderism are comparable. Homosexuality is not a mental delusion. Transgenderism is a mental disorder, and it is classic example of a delusion. A person who suffers from it believes contrary to reality that they are someone that they in fact are not. Believing oneself to be male when one is female, or believing oneself to be female when one is actually male is really no different than people who think they are some famous person from history. If I believed I was Gen. George S. Patton when I am really <insert real name here> I would be suffering a delusion. It would not be bigotry for others to point out that I am not Gen. George S. Patton, and it would be better for my mental health if others would not enable and go along with my delusion. 

KOC you are the only one who has actually hit on or came close to what I was asking, which for everyone else, is not an issue does God love homosexuals or transgenders, nor is this a question of why does the Church take a stance in regards to either, nor is this a topic in regards to anything else other than what I already asked.

 

 

So I  will ask why do you think homosexuality is not a mental disorder, and I would also insert from the radio program I am referencing one caller tried to point out and I don't know how true it is, that the really only true transgender person out there is a hermaphrodite which Is something like 1 in so many million...

 

If the Church states that homosexuality is wrong and is a sin, why then is it not considered a mental disorder ? The Church argues all the time in regards to " natural law " etc, so then if natural law states men an women are meant to pro create, why then is homosexuality not considered a mental disorder ?

 

I do understand your analogy in regards to  transgenderism , it is kind of hard to argue that there is not something mentally wrong there...     you also mentioned reality, some would argue that perception is ones reality, there is some slight truth to that but then there are the cold hard facts of life that you pointed out, plus if you really did believe you were the re incarnation of George Patton, guess what, everyone would indeed say you are nanners, but you would also have people who would say wow, plenty of people believe in bizarre topics, from UFOS, Bigfoot, magic, conspiracy theories etc, to them it is a real perceived reality yet others will say woa bub you have are delusional an have a mental problem.

 

So again trying to stay on track, I hope others will re read my original questions, if this spins out of control and off topic ill be more than happy to let it die off an watch everyone go nanners on other issues that were not even relevant to begin with.

 

 

I will try add another question with what I already asked,, or try to clarify my previous question, if then narrowing the field down to only homosexuality , why would anyone say and believe it is not a mental disorder, when others stick to natural law, and procreation, more over the church does literally have programs to help those with SSA to over come it and become homosexual, which would seem to me to suggest that means there is a mental problem there if the program in faith is actually working.

 

 

again I do hope for answers once again and not a spin off into ranting about whatever one may have a view on their moral stance.  This isn't so much a morality question I am posing to the forum.

[Luigi]

The American Psychological Association is the professional association of psychologists, psychiatrists, maybe counselors, and so forth. They publish a book - I forget the title, but someone on PM will know - which lists all the mental disorders. 

 

From the very beginning, homosexuality was defined as a mental disorder by the APA. Then in 1970-something, they decided it wasn't. And they removed it from their book of diagnoses. A history has been written about what happened, but the upshot is that one of the high-ranking leaders of the APA was homosexual himself, and he engineered the change from defining homosexuality as a psychological disorder to a "lifestyle." 

 

In terms of the Church's definition, the Church has always labeled homosexuality as an "objective disorder," meaning that the homosexual person's affections are directed an an inappropriate object. A man's love/intimacy/sexual desire should be directed at the appropriate object (a woman), and vise versa for a woman (the object would be a man). The idea is that every human faculty has a proper object - the proper object of the eyes is light, the proper object of the nose is smell, the proper object of the tongue is taste.

 

The Church has not defined homosexuality as a psychological disorder because it came up with its understanding of homosexuality well before the field of psychology ever developed.

Edited July 24, 2014 by Luigi

[CatherineM]

DSM-V. They changed it by saying that you are born with it therefore it can't be a mental disorder. My husband has schizophrenia, and it's genetic in his family. So you could say he's had it since birth too, but no one is going to take schizophrenia out of the dsm anytime soon

[Semper Catholic]

The American Psychological Association is the professional association of psychologists, psychiatrists, maybe counselors, and so forth. They publish a book - I forget the title, but someone on PM will know - which lists all the mental disorders.

From the very beginning, homosexuality was defined as a mental disorder by the APA. Then in 1970-something, they decided it wasn't. And they removed it from their book of diagnoses. A history has been written about what happened, but the upshot is that one of the high-ranking leaders of the APA was homosexual himself, and he engineered the change from defining homosexuality as a psychological disorder to a "lifestyle."

In terms of the Church's definition, the Church has always labeled homosexuality as an "objective disorder," meaning that the homosexual person's affections are directed an an inappropriate object. A man's love/intimacy/sexual desire should be directed at the appropriate object (a woman), and vise versa for a woman (the object would be a man). The idea is that every human faculty has a proper object - the proper object of the eyes is light, the proper object of the nose is smell, the proper object of the tongue is taste.

The Church has not defined homosexuality as a psychological disorder because it came up with its understanding of homosexuality well before the field of psychology ever developed.

Eugenics was also embraced at one time by the scientific community.

Try harder with these conspiracy theories.

[polskieserce]

I don't know why the Church does not consider them to be mental disorders.  The APA does not consider it to be a mental disorder because it was a cultural decision made by the people writing DSM.

 

When I was taking psychology classes in college a few years ago, we did cover the topic of what causes homosexuality and transgenderism in some of the classes.  Basically, to make a long story short, it's not 100% certain but the most likely reason is that improper hormone exposure causes the person to have their brain oriented as the opposite sex.  With homosexual men, they will have a somewhat female oriented brain.  With men who dress and act like women, it is more extreme.

 

Imo, this type of improper hormone exposure is a defect, however you want to classify it.

Edited July 24, 2014 by polskieserce

[Ice_nine]

psychology is a soft science, so it therefore changes along with changes in the culture. What's considered "normal" changes as the population's values change.

[Semper Catholic]

I don't know why the Church does not consider them to be mental disorders. The APA does not consider it to be a mental disorder because it was a cultural decision made by the people writing DSM.

When I was taking psychology classes in college a few years ago, we did cover the topic of what causes homosexuality and transgenderism in some of the classes. Basically, to make a long story short, it's not 100% certain but the most likely reason is that improper hormone exposure causes the person to have their brain oriented as the opposite sex. With homosexual men, they will have a somewhat female oriented brain. With men who dress and act like women, it is more extreme.

Imo, this type of improper hormone exposure is a defect, however you want to classify it.

I know I'm talking to a wall here, but this is pseudoscience