Charismatic Catholic

[qfnol31]

Just out of curiousity, Polar, do you have any quotes where the Charismatic Movement is directly mentioned by the Pope by name? (Or Ratzinger?)

[BeenaBobba]

I've known many Charismatic Catholics. My mom used to be a somewhat Charismatic . Many of them are really devout Catholics and love the Church with a visible passion. There are some aspects of Charismatic Catholicism that I like, but it's never really been my cup of tea. I'm not against it, though, although I agree that caution is a must. I don't think there's anything wrong with the Charismatic Movement in essence, but I'm sure there are excesses and abuses.

God bless,

Jennifer

[p0lar_bear]

[quote name='qfnol31' date='Jun 10 2004, 01:54 AM'] Just out of curiousity, Polar, do you have any quotes where the Charismatic Movement is directly mentioned by the Pope by name? (Or Ratzinger?) [/quote]
The quotes from the Holy Father I provided are from a 1998 audience with the Charismatic renewal. There are probably direct quotes on the Movement in the statement, but I don't have the document with me right now.

Give me a couple of days, k?

[qfnol31]

That's cool, thanx!

[P3chrmd]

Thanks everyone for the info! It has really helped....I just am curious about it....maybe something im interested in...I know that Rachael Lampa is charismatic catholic...thats where I first heard about it, when I read that she was one!

[Oik]

I understand the Charismatic renewal. I also understand the reemergant traditional movement. However, it is silly to keep this up. I am particularly disappointed with the idea that our Faith is being divided on these gounds. Where is the Unity? I myself need a steady diet of Tradition and Charism.

[p0lar_bear]

[quote name='Oik' date='Jun 10 2004, 04:07 AM'] I understand the Charismatic renewal. I also understand the reemergant traditional movement. However, it is silly to keep this up. I am particularly disappointed with the idea that our Faith is being divided on these gounds. Where is the Unity? I myself need a steady diet of Tradition and Charism. [/quote]
While I understand your point, it is important to realize that unity is not the same thing as uniformity. There are (and always have been) a variety of legitimate, though different, devotions and spiritualities within the Church. These differences should not lead to division, but rather to unity in diversity.

The mysticism of St. Teresa of Avila was not the same as the servant spirit of Mother Teresa of Calcutta, but both were equally Catholic and equally within the Church. The same principle can apply to the different movements and spiritualities within the Church today.

[p0lar_bear]

In general, the Church has encouraged the Charismatic Renewal, provided it is properly grounded in Church teaching and submissive to Church authority. Popes Paul VI and John Paul II have expressed their support of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal. Paul VI, in 1975, personally invited the renewal to hold its annual conference in Rome. In 1979, Pope John Paul II told charismatic leaders meeting in Rome, “I am convinced that this movement is a sign of the Spirit’s action …. a very important component in the total renewal of the Church.”

For further information on papal statements supporting the charismatic renewal within the Church, you might check out the book [i]Open the Windows: The Popes and the Charismatic Renewal[/i], edited by Kilian McDonnell (Greenlawn Press).


Still looking for more...

[popestpiusx]

For another perspective you can read [i]Close-ups of the Charismatic Movement [/i]. You can order it @ [url="http://www.catholictreasures.com/cartdescrip/11190.html"]http://www.catholictreasures.com/cartdescrip/11190.html[/url]

For more reading:
[url="http://www.dtl.org/treatise/parallels-1.htm"]http://www.dtl.org/treatise/parallels-1.htm[/url]
[url="http://www.geocities.com/catholic_profide/charisma.html"]http://www.geocities.com/catholic_profide/charisma.html[/url]
[url="http://salbert.tripod.com/index-3.html"]http://salbert.tripod.com/index-3.html[/url]
[url="http://www.catholictreasures.com/cartdescrip/20245.html"]http://www.catholictreasures.com/cartdescrip/20245.html[/url]

For info on it's history:
[url="http://www.unitypublishing.com/NewReligiousMovements/NewBrianCharismatics.html"]http://www.unitypublishing.com/NewReligiou...arismatics.html[/url]
[url="http://www.unitypublishing.com/NewReligiousMovements/WhatSpirt2.html"]http://www.unitypublishing.com/NewReligiou...WhatSpirt2.html[/url]

[dUSt]

This is a story that came out in ZENIT today:

[b]Charismatics Tell of Effects of the Holy Spirit (Part 1)
Members Testify to a Life-Changing Encounter [/b]

ROME, JUNE 10, 2004 (Zenit.org).- Profound friendship with Jesus Christ and a sure and strong sense of conversion are just two of the effects of the Holy Spirit, say charismatic renewal leaders.

The leaders of the International Catholic Charismatic Renewal recently shared with ZENIT their personal experience of Pentecost. The ICCRS, headquartered in Vatican City, provides service, communication and linkage to this ecclesial reality whose spirituality is followed by more than 100 million Catholics.

At the vigil of Pentecost in St. Peter's Basilica, on May 29, John Paul II sent special greetings to the Rinnovamento nello Spirito Santo, an Italian branch of the expression of Catholic Charismatic Renewal.

The Pope said that "thanks to the charismatic movement, many Christians, men and women, youths and adults, have rediscovered Pentecost as a living and present reality in their daily life."

ICCRS leaders readily testify to the workings of the Spirit.

Allan Panozza, president of ICCRS, recalls Matthew 3:11 -- "He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire" -- and says, "I have always loved my Catholic faith."

"But when I received a new outpouring of the Holy Spirit in 1978 in what is described within Catholic Charismatic Renewal as the 'baptism in the Holy Spirit' -- I experienced that fire," Panozza said. "And yet it was so simple: my prayer from deep within which said to God 'I give you my life.'"

"I began to experience profound changes within myself," recalled Panozza, an Australian. "I found myself being led to a deeper love and devotion to the Blessed Eucharist. I experienced a hunger to know more about the Word of God, and avidly read and studied the Scriptures."

Panozza also found himself "letting go of long-held habits of impressing my own attitudes and beliefs onto other people. I began to see myself more in the light of being loved by Almighty God, and that love became mine to share."

"But by far the greatest change in my life was to know the reality that Jesus is my friend," the ICCRS president said. "Yes, he is my protector, he is my Savior; indeed, increasingly I know him to be the Lord of my life. But above all else -- he is my friend! I know that he will never desert me nor disown me, and that my eternal destiny is securely held in his hands."

"This was the sublime grace given me by the Holy Spirit, and that grace remains with me daily," Panozza said. "Through the intercession of Mary I am empowered as she was to prayerfully surrender my life to God, and to be used in service by him in the ways he chooses."

Oreste Pesare, director of the ICCRS office in the Vatican, recalled how "one day, 20 years ago, when nobody could help me, I cried to the Lord. I was then an agnostic. And he answered me; he liberated me 'miraculously' and instantly from what would have harmed my life forever."

"I felt loved as I had never felt before, as I needed to feel for so many years ... and I gave him my life," Pesare said. "Since then, the Love of God, the Holy Spirit, has led my step by step on the paths of my history until he transformed an unbeliever -- as I was -- into a believer."

"Today I can witness that the Holy Spirit is my point of reference, refuge in difficulties, fortitude in my commitment. He is alive, converses with me, counsels me, guides me. He is my God and I am immensely grateful to him," Pesare said.

Nicholas Chia, representative of Asia in ICCRS, said that "in a world where money, power and sex are symbols of success, to live my Christian life is not easy."

"God's Holy Spirit is my lifeline to survive in this secular world, where there is no peace, no joy, no true happiness," he said.

"He is my strength when I am weak, he is the treasure that I seek, he is my friend when I am lonely," said Chia.

"Living one's faith is not the fruit of one's own efforts," Oreste Pesare said, "but rather a grace that we receive through a continual outpouring of the Holy Spirit -- when we pray, especially with our brothers and sisters; when we receive the sacraments. This is what happened in Jerusalem that day" of Pentecost.

The Spirit "is the love that every man and all of creation need to live," Pesare continued. "To receive the Holy Spirit consciously, freely in one's life, enables you to experience the passage from death to life. Anyone with a searching heart desires this passage and intuits its importance in one's life."

[Archangel Raphael]

*reads post by Dust* That's truly awesome. See that's what turns me on, the Holy Spirit and how He works. I guess it's cause of my calling, but I really love the Holy Spirit. I personally believe the baptizm of the Holy Spirit is vital in every Christian's life. Infact, I don't even recommend any newly born again Christian to go start ministering to someone else or begin preaching unless they're baptized in the Holy Spirit. In that there's power and dicernment, the Spirit is like our spiritual compass.

Also Polar Bear mentioned he personally believes that the gift of tongues isn't for everyone or isn't required I should say (If I quoted ya wrong, let me know). And I respect your belief, though I disagree myself. Mainly just for the fact that I believe once you receive the baptizm of the Holy Spirit, tongues already comes with it.

Cause I'm aware what Paul said in 1 Corinthians 12:10 - "He gives one person the power to perform miracles, and to another the ability to prophesy. He gives someone else the ability to know whether it is really the Spirit of God or another spirit that is speaking. Still another person is given the ability to speak in unknown languages, and another is given the ability to interpret what is being said." - NLT from Ilumina Gold.

However the apostles themselves did begin speaking in tongues when they got baptized in the Holy Spirit (the apostles of Christ I mean). Also from personal experiance, any person I've seen get baptized in the Holy Spirit began speaking in tongues. And even if it wasn't on the actual day they got baptized, it was not very long after. When I came to Christ at the age of 4, I also got baptized in the Holy Spirit on the same day. Though I didn't actually start speaking in tongues till like a couple months later I think. Though my mom used to tell me at times she used to ask me if I felt this urge to speak this strange jibberish language. And I would tell her yes, but most of the time I was kinda shy about it. Until one day when my little brother's toe got clipped by accident and bled a bit, I felt so conerned and compassionate I just immediately started speaking. My mom was like "I knew it!" lol! Normally that doesn't always happen though, usually people come to Christ and don't get the baptizim of the Holy Spirit till later, but again, God works differently in each life.

You know what I think though? Since a person can have more than one gift in the Spirit, instead of just each person having one, that'll explain what happened with the apostles and what Paul said in Corinthians too. I know some who are gifted in prophecy, yet also have tongues. I know others gifted in healing AND prophecy, and also have the gift of tongues. In simple words, I think the gift of tongues is like a default gift lol. Sorta like coming with the baptizim package deal ya know? Ok people you can laugh about it, I'm not trying to demeanor our Sacred Holy Spirit.

Cause when the Spirit baptizes you in His fire, He can then be able to pray out of you. As many of you already know, speaking in tongues is really the Holy Spirit himself praying the perfect prayer to the Father. I always tell people who have been baptized in the Holy Spirit, that if you aren't sure what to pray, just pray in tongues, cause He prays the perfect prayer I just think that's so awesome! So it's like, if He baptizes you in His fire, why wouldn't He not give you the language of angels (tongues)?


Not trying to get in a debate really, just expression my view on it that's all.

Edited June 11, 2004 by Archangel Raphael

[Apotheoun]

I was brought up in the Methodist Church, so I am familiar with the socalled [i]Holiness Movement[/i] and the theological ideas that form its foundation; and perhaps that is why, since my conversion in 1988, I have had no interest at all in the Charismatic Movement in the Catholic Church. However, I feel compelled to add that in the past I have been disturbed because of unauthorized Charismatic elements that have been inserted into the liturgy at the parish near my house and at the chapel on campus where I go to school, i.e., people singing in [i]tongues[/i], giving [i]words of knowledge[/i], and raising their hands in the [i]orans posture[/i], which during the celebration of the Mass is a liturgical action of the ordained priest alone. But thankfully I can end my post on a happy note, because after changing to the Byzantine Rite last year, I have experienced no further unauthorized liturgical changes during the celebration of the Eucharistic liturgy.

[p0lar_bear]

For the sake of those who may not know....


Archangel Raphael is not Catholic (correct me if I'm wrong on that). His/her statements are personal opinion, not the teaching of the Church.


Archangel,

Not trying to start a debate, I just wanted to make sure that was clear.

[popestpiusx]

[quote name='Apotheoun' date='Jun 11 2004, 09:56 AM'] I was brought up in the Methodist Church, so I am familiar with the socalled [i]Holiness Movement[/i] and the theological ideas that form its foundation; and perhaps that is why, since my conversion in 1988, I have had no interest at all in the Charismatic Movement in the Catholic Church. However, I feel compelled to add that in the past I have been disturbed because of unauthorized Charismatic elements that have been inserted into the liturgy at the parish near my house and at the chapel on campus where I go to school, i.e., people singing in [i]tongues[/i], giving [i]words of knowledge[/i], and raising their hands in the [i]orans posture[/i], which during the celebration of the Mass is a liturgical action of the ordained priest alone. But thankfully I can end my post on a happy note, because after changing to the Byzantine Rite last year, I have experienced no further unauthorized liturgical changes during the celebration of the Eucharistic liturgy. [/quote]
Excellent points (though I have not switched rites.)

[popestpiusx]

Here is a good one: From Petecostalism to Apostasy

[url="http://traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/a017htPentacostal_Vennari.htm"]http://traditioninaction.org/HotTopics/a01...tal_Vennari.htm[/url]