CatherineM Posted July 22, 2014 Share Posted July 22, 2014 I will get upset about Israel or Gaza as soon as the mainstream gets upset about Mosul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Where's the app that tells you every time a rocket is fired into Palestine? Also, how many of these rockets aren't intercepted before they can cause any damage? Is there an app for that? No there is no such App as of yet. At least I can find no app that does. I assume the Israeli rockets are fired after the Hamas rockets are fired. As I said previously I know when the alarm sounds Israelis are running into bomb shelters and that soon after Israeli rockets will be fired and likely Palestinians die. I can understand why there are people who believe Israel shouldn't exist. The initial claims to the land were dubious and their subsequent occupation was illegal, in my opinion. Kind of like how it was wrong for Europeans to claim land in the Americas where indigenous people already lived some 400 something years ago. I'm essentially living on stolen land, but four centuries soothe my conscience a bit and make it nearly impossible for anyone to take back what was/is rightfully theirs. I can understand those who believe that Israel should not have been created. But not those that completely deny its right to now exist, now that it does in fact exist. And you wonder why Hamas uses civilian buildings? Do you know how small Gaza is? Where are they going to put a military installation?So they are justified? I think not. I dismiss this as one of the lamest accuses I have ever heard in favor of Hamas using what is nothing more than human shields.The difference over in Palestine is that this mass emigration of Jews there happened a mere 60-70 years ago. That's what? Three generations? The illegal takeover, the confiscation of land that families have lived on for centuries, that's all still very fresh. You cannot empathize with them wanting Israel to be gone?No, I cannot say that I do and certainly not in the violent barbaric manner in which Hamas operates.I don't think it's possible to eliminate Israel non-violently (perhaps in a perfect imaginary world the could all be repatriated from whence their forebears came), but knowing your grandparents land and lives have been stolen by the grandparents of the Israelis who now live there, that has to sting. And it may be oversimplifying but to just say "oh how terrible is Hamas!" consider how ticked off you would be if you were in their situation. How violence might start to seem appealing. My grandfather was shot in the bum by Germans, like many Americans of his time he did not like the Germans of his time because of the evils the Germans did in his time, that and for shooting him in the bum. But I do not hate the Germans of my time, for the evils the grandfathers and grandmothers of the Germans today did long ago. The war is over. I would not still be ticked off, I would move on I would live life. I would stop fighting my grandfather's war because he is dead and his old enemy is dead. The war should end, and if Palestine and Israel want peace they will have to come to the agreement each has the right to exist. Without that there will be only war and death. Edited July 23, 2014 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 No there is no such App as of yet. At least I can find no app that does. I assume the Israeli rockets are fired after the Hamas rockets are fired. As I said previously I know when the alarm sounds Israelis are running into bomb shelters and that soon after Israeli rockets will be fired and likely Palestinians die. The israelis, at least. have somewhere to run. Gaza, as already been said, is tiny and packed with people. The Israeli gov't so graciously (sarcasm) warns Palestinians when they are to attack via letters or "roof-knocking," but there is no really safe place to run to. I can understand those who believe that Israel should not have been created. But not those that completely deny its right to now exist, now that it does in fact exist. Fair enough. But the state, as it exists now, CONTINUES to kick people out of their homes and off of their land. Sort of expansionist, huh? See I doubt the state of Israel will ever make any reparations and I don't believe they'll even settle for a peace that doesn't totally disadvantage and disenfranchise native populations. The Arab states are often portrayed as the ones unwillinging to negotiate and settle for peace, but if you look at the history Israel has rejected many offers for peace. I'm skeptical to believe that in recent years things have changed to the point where poor little Israel just wants peace but can't stop launching rockets because Hamas and the big Arab meanies are hell-bent on destroying them. For these reasons I can empathize with those who would like to see the state of Israel go. Not, the people who want all Jews and/or Israelis dead, mind you. But like you the state is here now and here to stay, and there are no peaceful means of eradicating it, but the desire for your homeland to become your homeland again, I can understand that. Do you likewise consider the Israeli military to be violent and barbaric?So they are justified? I think not. I dismiss this as one of the lamest accuses I have ever heard in favor of Hamas using what is nothing more than human shields. No, I cannot say that I do and certainly not in the violent barbaric manner in which Hamas operates. Also, I'm not saying that Hamas is justified or anything of that nature. To be honest I don't know how terrible or not terrible they are. But up against the Israeli army funded largely in part by US of A, they don't have a snowball's chance in hell. They just don't. Even if their tactics are as deplorable as you claim, pinning this solely on Hamas is scapegoating and takes reponsibility off of the much stronger and wealthier party in this war. Even if they deserve derision, the Israeli army is equally perhaps even more so worthy of derision for the injustices they commit. Unless you honestly think their proposals for peace are fair and genuine and they're just "defending" themselves but I don't purchase that story. My grandfather was shot in the bum by Germans, like many Americans of his time he did not like the Germans of his time because of the evils the Germans did in his time, that and for shooting him in the bum. But I do not hate the Germans of my time, for the evils the grandfathers and grandmothers of the Germans today did long ago. The war is over. I would not still be ticked off, I would move on I would live life. I would stop fighting my grandfather's war because he is dead and his old enemy is dead. The war should end, and if Palestine and Israel want peace they will have to come to the agreement each has the right to exist. Without that there will be only war and death. Last time I checked the Germans aren't occupying US territory and trying to kick you off of your own land and destroy your life, so yeah, I don't see what reason you'd have to be upset at them. I don't mean to be snippy but your situation and that of an average Palestinian is not analogous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 I will get upset about Israel or Gaza as soon as the mainstream gets upset about Mosul. why do you care what the mainstream has to say? Both situations warrant our prayers and concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted July 23, 2014 Author Share Posted July 23, 2014 also some of the quotes got screwed up in my post but it's too late to edit. My bad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Remind me again how Israel ended up in control of Gaza? Seems like it had something to do with being attacked, someone else starting a war, and Israel winning the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastasia13 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 Remind me again how Israel ended up in control of Gaza? Seems like it had something to do with being attacked, someone else starting a war, and Israel winning the war. And the children suffer for the sins of the parents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Catholic Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 From the news I've been watching it seems, perhaps not one-sided, but I think that it might be starting to slant that way? Perhaps it's just the sources I'm using (I don't watch a lot of cable news). So people oversimplify a complex situation in order to form a coherent collective memory narrative. I get that. It's something most of us probably do to make sense of the world. But it can become (and has become) really dangerous to do so. Where's the app that tells you every time a rocket is fired into Palestine? Also, how many of these rockets aren't intercepted before they can cause any damage? Is there an app for that? They don't make an app for that because it would completely drain your battery life. Israel's problem is they use a sledgehammer to kill a fly and somehow keep trying to justify destroying your house because they finally killed the fly. In all honesty there aren't any good guys here, just turd sandwiches on both sides. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) Remind me again how Israel ended up in control of Gaza? Seems like it had something to do with being attacked, someone else starting a war, and Israel winning the war. This is an important point to note. If you want to go back far enough, you can blame it on the Ottoman Empire (which controlled Palestine) for siding with the Central Powers (Germany, Austria-Hungary, and Bulgaria) in WW1 and losing, since it was the post-war mandates that created modern-day Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Jordan, and Palestine/Israel. Or, if you want to go even further back, I guess you could blame it on Abraham for migrating from Mesopotamia to Palestine/Israel. [/sarcasm] Edited July 23, 2014 by Norseman82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 (edited) And the children suffer for the sins of the parents. And the children grow up and continue the sins of the parents. An interesting note: I read somewhere that due to demographics, Arabs may eventually become a majority in the state of Israel, Some dispute this, but if it happens, then that would in effect become the Palestinian state. Edited July 23, 2014 by Norseman82 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 And the children grow up and continue the sins of the parents. An interesting note: I read somewhere that due to demographics, Arabs may eventually become a majority in the state of Israel, Some dispute this, but if it happens, then that would in effect become the Palestinian state. I've heard it said that Muslims don't need to conquer the West with the sword. They can simply out populate us. I live in an immigrant part of town, and I can't remember seeing a Muslim woman who wasn't pushing a baby carriage. Spain has tried opening immigration to Latin Anericans, and that had limited success. Now they are offering citizenship to anyone who can prove they are descended from a Jew kicked out in the late 1400's. They haven't made the same offer to descendants of the Moors. Saving their culture by having babies is not an option I guess. That goes for the rest of Western Europe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I've heard it said that Muslims don't need to conquer the West with the sword. They can simply out populate us. I live in an immigrant part of town, and I can't remember seeing a Muslim woman who wasn't pushing a baby carriage. Spain has tried opening immigration to Latin Anericans, and that had limited success. Now they are offering citizenship to anyone who can prove they are descended from a Jew kicked out in the late 1400's. They haven't made the same offer to descendants of the Moors. Saving their culture by having babies is not an option I guess. That goes for the rest of Western Europe. I agree with you 100% - I've been saying for years that what they failed to do 1500 years ago by jihad they will accomplish within 100 years (maybe even less) by demographics. Note the debates that are already occurring over allowing Sharia law courts in some western European countries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastasia13 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 And the children grow up and continue the sins of the parents. An interesting note: I read somewhere that due to demographics, Arabs may eventually become a majority in the state of Israel, Some dispute this, but if it happens, then that would in effect become the Palestinian state. Sometimes I wonder if there was a way to be more respectful of the rights of the Palestinians and then have a little more integrity calling out the carp of those who still seek to harm others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastasia13 Posted July 23, 2014 Share Posted July 23, 2014 I've heard it said that Muslims don't need to conquer the West with the sword. They can simply out populate us. I live in an immigrant part of town, and I can't remember seeing a Muslim woman who wasn't pushing a baby carriage. Spain has tried opening immigration to Latin Anericans, and that had limited success. Now they are offering citizenship to anyone who can prove they are descended from a Jew kicked out in the late 1400's. They haven't made the same offer to descendants of the Moors. Saving their culture by having babies is not an option I guess. That goes for the rest of Western Europe. http://youtu.be/6ZadAjueiP4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted July 26, 2014 Share Posted July 26, 2014 Hamas has absolutely zero interest in peace. Anyone who thinks otherwise has their head in the sand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now