Sisters Vs Nuns

[Anastasia13]

http://anunslife.org/resources/sister-or-nun

 

I just thought this was interesting that the two were not the same and even had different kinds of vows and ownership. Any idea why or what circumstances led to the change/addition of vows?

[Hemma]

Wow! I always wondered which is the difference between perpetual solemn vs. simple vows.

 

The article says, both are addressed as "Sister". Recently I had contact with some benedictine nuns of a very old monastery of German language. When they talk to each other, they call themselves "Frau Anna", not Schwester (Sister) Anna; however they write Sr. Anna. In a dictionary I found "Dame" as a translation for Frau in this context. Is that right? Does anybody know more about it?

 

By the way: It's Maria's Abbey from "The Sound of Music". :guitar: :)

Edited July 16, 2014 by Senensis

[maximillion]

Benedictines always addressed each other as Dame, yes. It is probably to do with their long history.......

 

It probably changed, like lots of things, post V2.

 

The Benedictines in the Tyburn UK community are all addressed as 'Mother'.

As to the changes in Vows this too is historical, but also pertains to the various reforms of various Orders, so there is maybe not one general principal that applies.

 

You are by no means alone in not realising the distinction between a nun and a sister....or that between simple and solemn vows.

 

Then there is Enclosure and Papal Enclosure.......

1990 and 1991 Carmelite constitutions.....

On and ON.

 

That is why it is important to do research and be sure of what the community you are interested in has as it's Rule and Constitution.

[oremus1]

Benedictines always addressed each other as Dame, yes. It is probably to do with their long history.......

 

It probably changed, like lots of things, post V2.

 

The Benedictines in the Tyburn UK community are all addressed as 'Mother'.

As to the changes in Vows this too is historical, but also pertains to the various reforms of various Orders, so there is maybe not one general principal that applies.

 

You are by no means alone in not realising the distinction between a nun and a sister....or that between simple and solemn vows.

 

Then there is Enclosure and Papal Enclosure.......

1990 and 1991 Carmelite constitutions.....

On and ON.

 

That is why it is important to do research and be sure of what the community you are interested in has as it's Rule and Constitution.

are the rules and constitutions publically avaliable? one of the orders said they only let people know those things at first profession

[Kayte Postle]

You could probably find most rules online (or in print) since there are only a certain number, I know the Abbey of Regina Laudis has the entirety of the Rule of St. Benedict on their website. The constitutions are different for each community (as they are written, and revised by the community in mind with their charism) and are typically studied in depth during the novitiate. When I visited the Sisters of Reparation on a nun run, the Mother gave one of the discerns a copy of the constitutions to read while we were there. I'm sure if you ask most communities will let you read their constitutions, especially if you are seriously discerning with that community.

[Luigi]

When Benedict founded his order (529?), his twin sister Scholastica founded a parallel (and equal) female branch. Benedict had monks; Scholastica had nuns. That mode of life became the norm in the western church, and all women religious were nuns until 1633 - see below.

 

As far as women's orders go, Jane de Chantal tried to found an active order in 1610 (her women religious were intended to visit women in their homes, thus the order of the Visitation), but the bishop she was working under wouldn't allow it - the idea was too new and radical for his taste.

 

Louise de Marillac successfully founded the first active order, the Daughters of Charity, in 1633. Because their lives were so different (based on their apostolates) from those of nuns, they needed different vows. To this day, they still take annual vows, renewed each year - if a sister doesn't want to stay in the order, she simply doesn't participate in the annual renewal-of-vows ceremony.

 

De Marillac's model of religious life was quickly copied by many other orders that sprang up in response to the social and cultural situations in which they found themselves.

 

But in terms of men's orders, Francis and then Dominic had broken the mold of monks when they established their active orders, Francis got papal approval in 1209 and Dominic in 1216. Their men religious are friars, not monks. Again, because their lives were so different (based on their apostolates) from those of monks, they needed different vows.

[Hemma]

Maximillion: yes, yes, good question! What's that thing with the 1990 and 1991 Carmelite Constitutions? (or should I ask in the Carmelite Customs thread?)

[maximillion]

Yes, ask there because I am no expert on Carmelites!

[krissylou]

I asked a Benedictine friend of mine (active Benedictine, so she's a Sister) about this.

 

Technically she said it isn't that nuns are cloistered and sisters are active but that nuns make solemn vows while sisters make simple.  However it is also true that the only communities that make solemn vows are cloistered.  (That having been said I think the Passionists make simple vows so they are technically not "nuns.")  So if you say that "nuns are cloistered" that is usually true but you don't have quite the right reasons.

 

It used to be (not sure how long ago) that it was possible to be dispensed from simple vows but it was impossible to get a dispensation once you had made solemn vows.  That is no longer the case.  And I don't think many Sisters go to their profession saying "ehh, this can be dispensed if needed so no biggie."

 

I think different congregations vary as to whether they call their members Mother or Sister.  Sister is more common by a lot, but not universal.  My mother said that the community that taught her elementary school called the temporary professed women "Sister" while you became "Mother" after perpetual profession.  The community that taught her high school called all their members "Sister."  Or maybe it was the reverse.  Doesn't matter, the point is it varies.  This seems to me to be a curiosity point more than a significant difference.

 

What I find FASCINATING is that while lots of people understand roughly parallel differences for male religious (a friar is not a monk, for instance) you have to be a canon law nerd to know the technical difference between "nun" and "sister."  Tons of people say "I was taught by the nuns in school.  They didn't let you mess around!" -- umm unless you went to a convent boarding school, probably not.  And lots and lots of women who are technically sisters (and do know the technical difference) will still colloquially refer to themselves as "nuns" all the time whereas I can't quite imagine a Franciscan Friar casually referring to himself as a Monk.  Hmmm.

 

So if you're discerning you'll want to be clear about the vows you'd be taking in this community but I wouldn't get worked up about the vocabulary.

[Credo in Deum]

I guess I'm the only one who thought of thunder-dome!!!

[Luigi]

I guess I'm the only one who thought of thunder-dome!!!

 

No, you're not the only one. I thought it was going to about a fundraising basketball game or something.