brandelynmarie Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 I'm thinking one must try to maintain a spiritual detachment with loved ones & their reactions while we discern or even get ready to enter. Easier said than done! I call it a "loving with open arms policy". We love them & are ready at a moment's notice to talk about it if they want, but also willing to gently & charitably disagree with them if need be. Or we are able to not talk about it if they don't want to...just never withholding love or affection on our part. If we believe it is in His will & we are trying to follow it, I believe He will give us Grace & strengthen us. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superblue Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 They are apostolic societies of life, which is a generous term by the Church for any community made after the declaration that no more Orders could be made. They are priests who live in community and have specific apostolates, just like any other community. If they had been made in 1222, they would have been declared religious Orders. Sorry, I just hate it when people are nit-picky about these terms when it makes no sense to be except in cases of official status. In the Church's eyes, they are not religious Orders. But for all practical purposes, they are pretty much the same as communities. k so exactly how does one determine the difference between a religious order, and a community ??? is what you are saying is that just because someone has the name of Benedictine or etc, doesn't necessarily mean they are an official Religious order, and if that is so, how is one suppose to know the difference between a community and an order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrysostom Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 Nothing like a monastery's newsletter coming in the post to let your family know that you have at the very least been in contact with religious communities. :P Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 k so exactly how does one determine the difference between a religious order, and a community ??? is what you are saying is that just because someone has the name of Benedictine or etc, doesn't necessarily mean they are an official Religious order, and if that is so, how is one suppose to know the difference between a community and an order. The Order of Saint Benedict is an official religious order, period. It's been officially recognized. The same goes for Orders like the Carmelites, Dominicans, and Franciscans. However, for communities such as the Little Sisters of the Poor, they are not a religious Order. A religious Order is an official status in the Church that is no longer attainable because during a time in the Medieval Ages, billions of them were popping up and they kept asking the Popes permission to be formally recognized, and it was getting crazy and hectic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NonNovi Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 They are apostolic societies of life, which is a generous term by the Church for any community made after the declaration that no more Orders could be made. They are priests who live in community and have specific apostolates, just like any other community. If they had been made in 1222, they would have been declared religious Orders. Sorry, I just hate it when people are nit-picky about these terms when it makes no sense to be except in cases of official status. In the Church's eyes, they are not religious Orders. But for all practical purposes, they are pretty much the same as communities. You're missing the point here. The starting point was that they are not a religious order. It is true that after a certain point no "orders" were created anymore. But the important part of the sentence was that the FSSP are not religious. They are a fraternity of "secular" priests, like diocesan ones, without vows. You said yourself they are a society of apostolic life, meaning they are not an institute of consecrated life (like all the orders and congregations). It might look the same, but it is not. FSSP priests are allowed to have property for example (no vow of poverty). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 You're missing the point here. The starting point was that they are not a religious order. It is true that after a certain point no "orders" were created anymore. But the important part of the sentence was that the FSSP are not religious. They are a fraternity of "secular" priests, like diocesan ones, without vows. You said yourself they are a society of apostolic life, meaning they are not an institute of consecrated life (like all the orders and congregations). It might look the same, but it is not. FSSP priests are allowed to have property for example (no vow of poverty). I'm not missing the point -- I am well aware that they are technically "secular" priests. However, for all practical purposes, they are religious in that they always live in community. That is the point Chrysostom was making when he said he wasn't looking into the religious priesthood. They may not take vows, but they do live in community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrysostom Posted July 17, 2014 Author Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) I'm not missing the point -- I am well aware that they are technically "secular" priests. However, for all practical purposes, they are religious in that they always live in community. That is the point Chrysostom was making when he said he wasn't looking into the religious priesthood. They may not take vows, but they do live in community. OK well this is getting off topic but I suppose I'll clear this one up: Well as of the moment it's more of a discernment oriented towards the evangelical counsels but the religious priesthood is certainly not out of the question. I meant here that I would be happy to discern the priesthood from within a religious community under vows, if God so led me. But I am drawn to life under vows first at this point. Living in community is great but the vows are paramount. Edited July 17, 2014 by chrysostom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 OK well this is getting off topic but I suppose I'll clear this one up: I meant here that I would be happy to discern the priesthood from within a religious community under vows, if God so led me. But I am drawn to life under vows first at this point. Living in community is great but the vows are paramount. Ah. Well, in that case, the ICKSP may not be for you. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1054 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 ((Quick question: Is a "secular" priest as the term is used here one who lives in the world instead of in a monastic community?)) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luigi Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 (edited) ((Quick question: Is a "secular" priest as the term is used here one who lives in the world instead of in a monastic community?)) Yes. Another terms would be "a diocesan priest." "Secular" actually means "in the world." Most secular priests are ordained and incardinated (given official status) in a diocese. They are ordained by the bishop (/archbishop/cardinal) of the diocese. They are under the supervision of the bishop of that diocese (even if the ordaining bishop is moved or dies and is replaced by another bishop). They commit to minister to the people of the diocese (and its missions, if any). They don't take vows of poverty - some diocesan/secular priests come from wealthy families, and they retain their share of the wealth, which is a sign of "worldliness." They don't have distinctive (clothing) habits - they wear the regular "priestly blacks." Most people call these guys "ordered priests." A priest within an official order (Dominicans, Carmelites, Franciscans, etc.) is still a priest in every sense of the word, but his ministry is somewhat different. Rather than committing to ministering to the people of a particular diocese, they commit to the charism of the founder; they may minister in Chicago for a few years, then go to New York for a few years, then go to some other diocese. They may be ordained by a diocesan bishop, but if they have a bishop in their order, that guy may be the one who ordains them (with the permission of the local bishop, of course). They take vows including poverty - they don't retain their "worldly" possessions, but give up everything so that they can go wherever they're needed whenever they're needed. They usually do have distinctive habits, but that may have changed post-Vatican II. Monks (Benedictines, Cistercians, Trappists) are a special case. They're very similar to the guys just above in that they all 'leave the world' and enter the monastery. Some of them study for the priesthood and are ordained; others remain 'brothers' all their lives. But monks usually stay in their original monastery for the rest of their lives (unless their original monastery founds a new monastery, or they could be sent off to Rome to teach in an international university for their order or something). Most of them take a vow of stability, meaning they will stay where they entered. St. Benedict called a monastery "a school of charity," meaning the monks who live together for the rest of their lives work at improving their virtues through their interactions with this more limited group of guys they live with. However, there are also some "fraternities" (brotherhoods) of secular priests. I think the Oratorians were the first such group. These are 'secular' priests in that they haven't left the world to enter a monastery, but they're not a traditional & official order like those mentioned above. They're still priests in every sense of the word, but their ministerial focus is somewhat different from a diocesan priest - they may have been founded to promote some particular devotion, for instance. There are a lot of fine distinctions here. Some are basically historical but are now codified in canon law. Some are based on the charism of the group. Some are based on what they were allowed to do by the secular government in the time/place/culture in which they were created. Most Catholics don't know most of the distinctions, nor do they need to, nor do they care to. If you join a group, they'll explain it all to you - if your family is interested in the specific details, you can explain it to them. Edited July 17, 2014 by Luigi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1054 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Thank you Luigi!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luigi Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 AAARRRGGGHHHHH! I made a typo at the end of the second paragraph. Diocesan priests are NOT "ordered priests." That sentence is supposed to be at the end of the next paragraph - it's the Dominicans, Carmelites, Franciscans, etc. who are "ordered priests." I tell you, if I could type, I'd be dangerous! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1054 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Don't worry, happens to the best of us. Feel like I'm getting knocked out by the computer left, right and center these days. It's Phatmass' way of teaching us humility, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandelynmarie Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 Ahem, :punchout: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1054 Posted July 17, 2014 Share Posted July 17, 2014 That's probably my favorite smiley. Have to stop myself from attaching it to every post... Now please excuse me while I go ice the black eye my computer's given me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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