Is It Moral To Make Contraception Illegal?

[CatholicsAreKewl]

I was wondering about the moral arguments for and against the state outlawing condoms and other non-abortifacient forms of birth control. Should Catholics support or oppose such regulations?

[John Ryan]

If contraceptives are a grave evil, I think the logic step is to ban them.

[dairygirl4u2c]

you can be against something personally and as a religion, but not think there has to be bans about it. it doesn't affect you much at all, so why worry about it?
more than that though, it's about respect. banning something that doesnt affect you is disrespectful, and i'd even personally go so far as to say it's a sin in itself.

 

and where do you stop? should every sin be outlawed? all the seven deadly sins? all the ten commandments? should church on sunday be mandatory? getting more and more bizarre and unconsititutional, but you see my point.

 

Edited July 11, 2014 by dairygirl4u2c

[chrysostom]

banning something that doesnt affect you is disrespectful, and i'd even personally go so far as to say it's a sin in itself.

 

But contraceptives, aside from other highly destructive societal effects, contribute to the massive rise in rates of abortion.

 

and where do you stop? should every sin be outlawed? all the seven deadly sins? all the ten commandments? should church on sunday be mandatory? getting more and more bizarre and unconsititutional, but you see my point.

 

Whoever said we were limiting this discussion to America?

[dairygirl4u2c]

almost all studies show that the lack of contraceptives leads to an increase in abortion rates. the underlying problem is society and culure, but it's still more likley to have less abortion with contraceptives.

[Credo in Deum]

Contraceptives are inherently evil. Yes, it is not only moral but our duty to rid ourselves of things which are inherently evil.

Ask yourself: should we save the body and lose the soul? or save the soul and lose the body?

almost all studies show that the lack of contraceptives leads to an increase in abortion rates. the underlying problem is society and culure, but it's still more likley to have less abortion with contraceptives.

You do not stop an evil by allowing another evil to exist. The very same spirit of "birth control" helped bring about condoms and abortion.

[dairygirl4u2c]

i agree with your general sentiment about the root of it all.... but there's still somehting to be said about...

 

 

[CrossCuT]

Whoever said we were limiting this discussion to America?

 

Do you have data to back that up?

 

Contraceptives are inherently evil. Yes, it is not only moral but our duty to rid ourselves of things which are inherently evil.

Ask yourself: should we save the body and lose the soul? or save the soul and lose the body?


You do not stop an evil by allowing another evil to exist. The very same spirit of "birth control" helped bring about condoms and abortion.

 

You also cant stop evil simply by banning it. Argument is the same for guns and drugs. 

 

If you honestly want to get rid of abortions, you need to eliminate the NEED for abortions. Aka, you cant cover cancer with a band aid.

 Why do people get abortions? The majority of women who get them are on the lowest socioeconomic ladder in society. 

 

Edited July 12, 2014 by CrossCuT

[Credo in Deum]

You also cant stop evil simply by banning it. Argument is the same for guns and drugs.

I never implied that you could or that it would. It can help reduce evil and even increase the chance of eliminating it. Also the argument is not the same as guns and drugs since neither of those two things are inherently evil.

If you honestly want to get rid of abortions, you need to eliminate the NEED for abortions. Aka, you cant cover cancer with a band aid.
Why do people get abortions? The majority of women who get them are on the lowest socioeconomic ladder in society.

Since there isn't a situation or event in this world that could ever present a justified NEED for abortions, then what pray tell is this "thing" that needs to be eliminated? Edited July 12, 2014 by Credo in Deum

[CrossCuT]

I totally get where your coming from...nothing can justify murder, but if you don't allow yourself to look through the eyes of others we will NOT solve this problem. There is a difference between your catholic idea of a justified need for abortion and the reality of it happening. The reality is women get abortions because they are in the really cruddy situations in life. Go google reasons for abortions if you don't know what they are.

Also, this reality of abortion need can be changed. We can eliminate the need for abortion if we open our eyes to what's going on. You can sit in your white castle and look down on the evils of the world if you so choose and argue there are no good reasons therefor all we can do is ban it...then you'll be looking down on abortion for a long time. People need to retain a realistic outlook on these things and address them in a logical way.

[dairygirl4u2c]

"You do not stop an evil by allowing another evil to exist."

 

it would mean a lot more if that poster said 'you should not stop an evil....'. and then go on to admit that it could reduce other evils, such as abortion.

unfortunately, too often when the practical consequences go against someone's moral approach, they just decide to ignore or disclose the real outcomes of their ideas.

 

kind of like when it's obvious gun checks would cause less guns in the hands of wrong people, but no one wants to admit that murder would go down because of it. just similar is all i'm sayin

[CrossCuT]

You can keep thinking what you want, but obviously the millions of women who get abortions are justifying it to themselves in one way or another so we need to address THAT. We need to understand the reasons they do it and then try to eliminate those reasons. Does that make sense?

Also sorry if I sound confusing...I'm typing on my tiny phone screen

[Credo in Deum]

I totally get where your coming from...nothing can justify murder, but if you don't allow yourself to look through the eyes of others we will NOT solve this problem. There is a difference between your catholic idea of a justified need for abortion and the reality of it happening. The reality is women get abortions because they are in the really cruddy situations in life. Go google reasons for abortions if you don't know what they are.

False! There is nothing different about Catholicsm and reality since the two are the same thing. It is only when we abandon reality do we make unreasonable decisions and back them up with unreasonable excuses. I've heard plenty of excuses for why abortions were carried out, such as: rape, incest, poverty, the fear of dealing with a disabled child, the fear of raising a child alone, HIV, and even that the abortion was for the child's benefit. None of these reasons change the reality that these are unreasonable excuses for an abortion/murder. Catholics help no one when they throw their Catholic Faith to the side, thinking that by adopting these peoples unreasonable outlooks, it's going to somehow provide us with an answer and a reasonable solution to the problem. Heck not even the people who hold these unreasonable outlooks do what you're proposing for other murders and murderers.

There is never a need for an abortion and pretending like there is helps nobody.

Also, this reality of abortion need can be changed. We can eliminate the need for abortion if we open our eyes to what's going on. You can sit in your white castle and look down on the evils of the world if you so choose and argue there are no good reasons therefor all we can do is ban it...then you'll be looking down on abortion for a long time. People need to retain a realistic outlook on these things and address them in a logical way.

The Catholic Church's outlook is the realistic outlook. It's castle is built on a Rock, while yours is built on sand. I suggest you switch castles. Edited July 12, 2014 by Credo in Deum

[Semper Catholic]

False! There is nothing different about Catholicsm and reality since the two are the same thing. It is only when we abandon reality do we make unreasonable decisions and back them up with unreasonable excuses. I've heard plenty of excuses for why abortions were carried out, such as: rape, incest, poverty, the fear of dealing with a disabled child, the fear of raising a child alone, HIV, and even that the abortion was for the child's benefit. None of these reasons change the reality that these are unreasonable excuses for an abortion/murder. Catholics help no one when they throw their Catholic Faith to the side, thinking that by adopting these peoples unreasonable outlooks, it's going to somehow provide us with an answer and a reasonable solution to the problem. Heck not even the people who hold these unreasonable outlooks do what you're proposing for other murders and murderers.

There is never a need for an abortion and pretending like there is helps nobody.

The Catholic Church's outlook is the realistic outlook. It's castle is built on a Rock, while yours is built on sand. I suggest you switch castles.

Your head in the sand world view is really dumb fyi.

[CrossCuT]

False! There is nothing different about Catholicsm and reality since the two are the same thing. It is only when we abandon reality do we make unreasonable decisions and back them up with unreasonable excuses. I've heard plenty of excuses for why abortions were carried out, such as: rape, incest, poverty, the fear of dealing with a disabled child, the fear of raising a child alone, HIV, and even that the abortion was for the child's benefit. None of these reasons change the reality that these are unreasonable excuses for an abortion/murder. Catholics help no one when they throw their Catholic Faith to the side, thinking that by adopting these peoples unreasonable outlooks, it's going to somehow provide us with an answer and a reasonable solution to the problem. Heck not even the people who hold these unreasonable outlooks do what you're proposing for other murders and murderers.

There is never a need for an abortion and pretending like there is helps nobody.

The Catholic Church's outlook is the realistic outlook. It's castle is built on a Rock, while yours is built on sand. I suggest you switch castles.

 

Ok, youre not getting it. What youre saying is true, that if youre a Catholic you believe that reality should be what catholics believe but that is not reality. Reality is abortions happen because women are having a rough time. Youre saying the reasons they get abortions are not good enough because murder is not justified by anything - cool beans. But if youre gonna sit here and tell me that the crap you listed are not significant problems, then I will say youre daft.

 

You are literally choosing to ignore the reasons women get abortions and as such you will NEVER solve the problem. You simply wont. Its like somene has a leak in a pipe and its causing their basement to flood...instead of fixing the leak by replacing the pipe you think its better to ignore the hole and wrap paper towels around it. It wont stop the leak...you need to address the HOLE...the actual problem.

 

Running around spewing your Catholic identity is fine and dandy, but it wont fix the whole either. You have to be realistic and open your eyes to the crummy world we live in so we can fix it. Ignoring it helps no one...and in fact I think that ignorant mentality helps promote abortions by ignoring the real issues.