KnightofChrist Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 No Nihil. Not even close. Dont get me started. Yeah, just 'let it go'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Ive heard many sing the praises of this movie where female empowerment is concerned; have hailed it as this breakthrough film that finally gives us some women who exemplify the strong archetype that men have dominated for forever...but I just dont see it. What part of this film makes it original in that sense? In the movie, the girl who was dying was only able to be saved by another girl, not a man. Secondly, the man who was supposed to save her turned out to be evil and didn't. There was no knight in shining armor in this movie. Women were the central characters, and did all of the important things in the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 Miyazaki. ;) Just sayin'. Mmm, quite so! Id stand behind any of those films for female empowerment before the Frozen poo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arfink Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Mmm, quite so! Id stand behind any of those films for female empowerment before the Frozen poo. Even Porco Rosso? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 In the movie, the girl who was dying was only able to be saved by another girl, not a man. Secondly, the man who was supposed to save her turned out to be evil and didn't. There was no knight in shining armor in this movie. Women were the central characters, and did all of the important things in the show. Yawn. I dont think running towards eachother in a fit of passion on a frozen lake but then deciding to save your sisters life is much evidence. Besides, she didnt make a "Im a strong female" choice; she made an "Oh crap my sister is gonna die" logical choice. I dont think that reflects on anything being discussed here. But you have successfully pointed out the one and only thing people are able to use as this all determining factor in the Frozen discussion. And the dude being evil part is meh...there is another dude to take his place. Yeah he is quirky and silly and has a pet deer thing, but he is the same as all the other males. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) In the movie, the girl who was dying was only able to be saved by another girl, not a man. Secondly, the man who was supposed to save her turned out to be evil and didn't. There was no knight in shining armor in this movie. Women were the central characters, and did all of the important things in the show. Yawn. I dont think running towards eachother in a fit of passion on a frozen lake but then deciding to save your sisters life is much evidence. Besides, she didnt make a "Im a strong female" choice; she made an "Oh croutons my sister is gonna die" logical choice. I dont think that reflects on anything being discussed here. But you have successfully pointed out the one and only thing people are able to use as this all determining factor in the Frozen discussion. And the dude being evil part is meh...there is another dude to take his place. Yeah he is quirky and silly and has a pet deer thing, but he is the same as all the other males. Nihil can you come up with anything to sway me? I really want to understand why people worship this movie for breaking female stereotypes. Edited July 8, 2014 by CrossCuT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) Yawn. I dont think running towards eachother in a fit of passion on a frozen lake but then deciding to save your sisters life is much evidence. Besides, she didnt make a "Im a strong female" choice; she made an "Oh croutons my sister is gonna die" logical choice. I dont think that reflects on anything being discussed here. But you have successfully pointed out the one and only thing people are able to use as this all determining factor in the Frozen discussion. And the dude being evil part is meh...there is another dude to take his place. Yeah he is quirky and silly and has a pet deer thing, but he is the same as all the other males. Nihil can you come up with anything to sway me? I really want to understand why people worship this movie for breaking female stereotypes. Well, someone's in a right snit today. She went on a journey by herself to find her sister and bring her back, denying male help when it was offered to her, saying she wanted to do it alone. Also, you generalized men: "But he is the same as all the other males." Edited July 8, 2014 by FuturePriest387 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 Those points are too simple for me. The characters are too simple for me. She does not exemplify anything meaningful other than she loves her sister and understands her sister is cray and probably shouldn't have random people around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Ive heard many sing the praises of this movie where female empowerment is concerned; have hailed it as this breakthrough film that finally gives us some women who exemplify the strong archetype that men have dominated for forever...but I just dont see it. What part of this film makes it original in that sense? I see a lot of feminine 'empowerment' in Frozen. Two of the most central characters are female. Elsa seriously could not give less of a crap about men, and Anna learns throughout the movie that romantic love, or rather her false impression of romantic love, is not as important as the familiar love she shares with Elsa. I mean, they played the whole 'true love's first kiss' cliche, and then averted it when that love failed, and the real power of true love came through her bond with Elsa. It was only after she recognized her legitimate bond with Elsa that she found her romantic love in Kristoff. Basically, "get your house in order before you go looking for romance". The movie easily passes the Bechdel test. Not exactly difficult, but rare enough that I think it is significant. The significant conflict of the film was proximately caused by, then proximately solved by women. Men had significant supporting roles and sort of secondary antagonistic roles, but they were clearly not the focus of the movie. (Also Kristoff is, IMO, a very good masculine figure, so I do not think for a second that the feminine credit in Frozen comes at the expense of masculinity.) Both Anna and Elsa really kick arse in a way that is not sexualized, not 'waif-fu', and not in such a way that they are immediately eclipsed by a male warrior hero. In fact Elsa is easily more powerful than any man in the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 Im not familiar with her character. But think about her, and read through the questionnaire I quoted from the article. Does she pass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Those points are too simple for me. The characters are too simple for me. She does not exemplify anything meaningful other than she loves her sister and understands her sister is cray and probably shouldn't have random people around. So it's not that the movie doesn't exemplify strong female characters, they're just not "strong enough" for you. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 I see a lot of feminine 'empowerment' in Frozen. Two of the most central characters are female. Elsa seriously could not give less of a croutons about men, and Anna learns throughout the movie that romantic love, or rather her false impression of romantic love, is not as important as the familiar love she shares with Elsa. I mean, they played the whole 'true love's first kiss' cliche, and then averted it when that love failed, and the real power of true love came through her bond with Elsa. It was only after she recognized her legitimate bond with Elsa that she found her romantic love in Kristoff. Basically, "get your house in order before you go looking for romance". The movie easily passes the Bechdel test. Not exactly difficult, but rare enough that I think it is significant. The significant conflict of the film was proximately caused by, then proximately solved by women. Men had significant supporting roles and sort of secondary antagonistic roles, but they were clearly not the focus of the movie. (Also Kristoff is, IMO, a very good masculine figure, so I do not think for a second that the feminine credit in Frozen comes at the expense of masculinity.) Both Anna and Elsa really kick arse in a way that is not sexualized, not 'waif-fu', and not in such a way that they are immediately eclipsed by a male warrior hero. In fact Elsa is easily more powerful than any man in the movie. I dont like the idea that the only way for a woman to be "strong" is that she has to be stripped of her sexuality. I dont think thats fair. Nearly every single male protagonist is able to be kick arse as well as have interest in a female...his awesome is never in question. He doesnt abandon his sexuality. But I also dont expect a cute kids cartoon to get too sexual either...so I feel like you cant really use the fact they arent sexualized as a major point. I do appreciate your response, it was much more informative. Im not familiar with the Bechdel test either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 I dont like the idea that the only way for a woman to be "strong" is that she has to be stripped of her sexuality. I dont think thats fair. Nearly every single male protagonist is able to be kick arse as well as have interest in a female...his amesome is never in question. He doesnt abandon his sexuality. But I also dont expect a cute kids cartoon to get too sexual either...so I feel like you cant really use the fact they arent sexualized as a major point. I do appreciate your response, it was much more informative. Im not familiar with the Bechdel test either. So you complain that women are sexualized and reduced to sexual play things, but when a character isn't portrayed as sexual you complain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 (edited) So you complain that women are sexualized and reduced to sexual play things, but when a character isn't portrayed as sexual you complain? You got me. Consider the context please, dont get grumpy. Edited July 8, 2014 by CrossCuT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now