Automatic Excommunication And Damnation, According To Canon Law

[Guest]

Obviously the soul. Do you honestly think God who is love would be mad at a Priest for saving lives in a situation like this? And send him to burn in hell on top of it? Not saying it isn't possible but it sorta sounds similar to babies burning in hell for eternity who weren't Baptized.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Guest

[Guest]

I remember my priest saying once "If someone told me in confession that there was a bomb under my car, then when I am going home I would get into my car just like I would normally do any other day."

Why would he do this? And if a Priest didn't do this he would be risking his soul? Really?

[Nihil Obstat]

Obviously the soul. Do you honestly think God who is love would be mad at a Priest for saving lives in a situation like this? And send him to burn in hell on top of it? Not saying it isn't possible but it sorta sounds similar to babies burning in hell for eternity who weren't Baptized.

 

 

Why would he do this? And if a Priest didn't do this he would be risking his soul? Really?

Can we perform an evil action to bring about some good outcome?

[Guest]

I have a hard time grasping how breaking the seal in this specific instance would be considered the evil action while letting the innocent lives be killed by a bomb would be acceptable. I'm curious if Jesus were walking around right now what interesting imput he would have on this topic. They were stunned when he didn't give the green light for the woman caught in adultery to be stoned to death. I mean the law said stone her to death and do it now. Not saying Jesus wouldn't agree with the Church law in this situation but at the same I'm skeptical.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Guest

[Credo in Deum]

Obviously the soul. Do you honestly think God would be mad at a Priest for saving lives in a situation like this? And send him to burn in hell for eternity on top of it? Not saying it isn't possible but it sorta sounds similar to babies being in hell.

 

The implications of a priest breaking the seal of confession would be worse.  Enemies of the Church would use it to wage war against the sacrament and others would no longer have trust in the sacrament and would no longer confess their mortal sins.   Remember the priest is acting in persona Christi.  You can tell God your intentions to bomb a school right now and He will not void your free will to do so.   In the sacrament of confession you're not telling your sins to just a man, you're telling them to Christ Himself. 

[Guest]

Ok agreed you are telling your sins to Christ himself. Christ is a smart guy though. There would be ways of warning about the bomb without blowing anyone's cover. So a guy comes to Confession and says I'm going to come in during 8 am Mass tommorow and shoot everyone there. The Priest has to be silent about this and on top of it you're telling me this is what Jesus ask ? But Jesus LOVES the children surely he would want them to be prevented from being murdered at 8 am Mass. Again this sounds to me like babies burning in hell for eternity.

Edited July 9, 2014 by Guest

[Credo in Deum]

Ok agreed you are telling your sins to Christ himself. Christ is a smart guy though. There would be ways of warning about the bomb without blowing anyone's cover. So a guy comes to Confession and says I'm going to come in during 8 am Mass tommorow and shoot everyone there. The Priest has to be silent about this and on top of it you're telling me this is what Jesus ask ? But Jesus LOVES the children surely he would want them to be prevented from being murdered at 8 am Mass. Again this sounds like babies burning in hell.

 

The only thing a priest could do is pray to God for that person. Their lives and his are in the hands of God- as they always are.  

 

• Can. 983 §1. The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray in any way a penitent in words or in any manner and for any reason.
• §2. The interpreter, if there is one, and all others who in any way have knowledge of sins from confession are also obliged to observe secrecy.
• Can. 984 §1. A confessor is prohibited completely from using knowledge acquired from confession to the detriment of the penitent even when any danger of revelation is excluded.

[Guest]

And a Priest saving innocent lives wouldn't stop me from confessing my mortal sins. Although my mortal sins don't entail murdering people or plans to murder people. So mabey that skews my views on this topic.

[Nihil Obstat]

The Church throughout Her whole history has found the Seal of the Confessional critical enough to the salvation of souls that its integrity has always, always been protected to the fullest extent possible. We find in the Fourth Lateran Council that a priest who betrays the Seal is not only deposed, but even sent to live in a monastery in isolation and penance for the rest of his life. 

The secrecy of confession has long been considered intimately close to the heart of the sacrament itself. It has been called 'almost of the essence of the sacrament.' My speculation for this is that it is based on the priest acting as Christ in the confessional. The penitent confesses not to the priest, but to Christ, and it is Christ who absolves him. The priest acts merely as an intermediary. Thus, since the penitent does not reveal his sins to the priest per se, but to Christ, the priest is therefore not at liberty to use any knowledge he gains in the confessional, for any reason. The state of a man's soul is between him and God.

The grave spiritual risk associated with a priest violating the Seal is that a penitent is now led to wonder whether he is interacting with Christ, as he should be, or simply with the priest who - apparently - will occasionally act on his own authority. To violate the Seal is very much a spiritual rape. A priest who acts this way takes what is not his to take, what is never his to take, that is, the integrity of the penitent's most intimate moment of reconciliation with God. The priest has no part in that moment, besides as an intermediary. A sort of interpreter. To take more than that is one of the grossest spiritual violations a priest could possibly be guilty of. Second perhaps only to intentionally offering invalid sacraments.

[fides' Jack]

I would never have been compelled to testify against a client. As to damnation, I took an oath on a bible when I was sworn in as an attorney. Some people would believe that would beaver dam me if I violated my oath.

 

Good point.  I hadn't considered swearing on a bible.

[fides' Jack]

Obviously the soul. Do you honestly think God who is love would be mad at a Priest for saving lives in a situation like this? And send him to burn in hell on top of it? Not saying it isn't possible but it sorta sounds similar to babies burning in hell for eternity who weren't Baptized.

 

This is the correct answer, but it reaches far beyond where you're thinking.

 

This impacts not just the soul of the priest, but potentially the souls of countless people.  If people can't absolutely count on the seal of confession, many wouldn't confess, and would go to hell as a result.  The priest who breaks the seal injures the entire Church; not just himself.

 

And that's far more important than the lives of people who would die as a result of this hypothetical bombing.

Edited July 9, 2014 by fides' Jack

[fides' Jack]

I wanted to add - people generally see death as evil.  It's not.  Actions that lead to death can be evil, but even that isn't guaranteed.  In a case like this, if a person planted a bomb that killed others, the action of the bomb (and killing) is evil, but the death of the people present is not.  

 

Of course, murder is terribly evil, but a person dying is not evil.

 

I think it's an important distinction to make.

[superblue]

Alright something fun to take a stab at , the " seal "

 

plenty of scenarios regarding well what if someone is going to commit a murder, what if a child is abused, what if a frog had wings.

 

then we have this pesky thing called " free will " and a  "conscious "  and then the glorious canon law for all such questions to be referred to along with the catechism and God help anyone who questions either publicly or at least on a Catholic Forum.

 

So the Seal is the bond / promise what ever one likes to call it that the Priest rightly takes, but then loophole ( which I am sure someone is going to hate that term being used ) is Reconciliation / Confession itself. Same for everyone else, Priest breaks the seal to save a Child or whom ever, Woe to the for breaking the seal shame on you beware of all the judgers coming out of the self righteous woodworks to chuck rocks, but wait a tick, the same priest then turns around after breaking the seal and saving whom ever from what ever, goes to the Sacrament of Reconciliation and is forgiven for breaking said seal.

 

hint , hint, wink, wink, nudge, nudge, and bobs' your uncle.

 

 

Same goes for life long criminals, of the worst kind, they can break every seal, and commandment in the book, and five minutes before death, after wrecking havoc on society for the criminals entire life, that criminal can be freed from sin, as long as said criminal repents and turns to Christ, or by the " law of the Church " is baptized, confirmed, receives the sacrament of reconciliation, and receives communion.

 

And then perhaps that priest and criminal will end up in purgatory for who knows how long if at all, perhaps God will say nope all is fine come on in, because no one knows what God will do come judgement day and no one can question God or call Him out on being unfair let alone question the Church on anything it teaches so we all just have to suck it up an deal with it.

 

 

k that was fun, ty.

 

:winner:  :cheers:  :rabbit:

[Nihil Obstat]

What are you even trying to say? Every sin is a-ok because you can go to confession later?

[fides' Jack]

Same question.