fides' Jack Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Priest says: "Once a man confessed to me to having had illicit sexual relations with a woman who was not his wife while acting as President of the United States." <--- Very very wrong. Priest says: "Once a man confessed to me to having had illicit sexual relations with a woman who was not his wife." <-- Should be fine as long as he is careful never to indicate any identifying characteristics about anyone involved. Very interesting. Please clarify if I'm wrong, but you seem to be saying that the basis of whether or not it qualifies as breaking the seal is in whether or not the person who made the confession can be somehow identified. I think that's wrong, and maybe that's where my misunderstanding of the seal is. From your previous post (emphasis mine): "A confessor must not reveal the contents of a confession either directly, by repeating what has been said, or indirectly, by some hint or clue or gesture. The priest must not use the information learned in a confession for his own gain. He cannot reveal the identity of penitents." These seem to me to be 3 separate issues, each of which violates the seal. That is: The contents of a confession The identity of a person who confessed The knowledge gained in confession for personal gain How is "Once a man confessed to me to having had illicit sexual relations with a woman who was not his wife." NOT a violation of that first item? Or is my understanding of the seal misleading? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Very interesting. Please clarify if I'm wrong, but you seem to be saying that the basis of whether or not it qualifies as breaking the seal is in whether or not the person who made the confession can be somehow identified. I think that's wrong, and maybe that's where my misunderstanding of the seal is. From your previous post (emphasis mine): "A confessor must not reveal the contents of a confession either directly, by repeating what has been said, or indirectly, by some hint or clue or gesture. The priest must not use the information learned in a confession for his own gain. He cannot reveal the identity of penitents." These seem to me to be 3 separate issues, each of which violates the seal. That is: The contents of a confession The identity of a person who confessed The knowledge gained in confession for personal gain How is [background=#f7f7f7]"Once a man confessed to me to having had illicit sexual relations with a woman who was not his wife." NOT a violation of that first item? Or is my understanding of the seal misleading?[/background] As I understand it, we are talking about contents of a specific confession, rather than all confessions in general. As Fr. Z wrote: "None of this means that priests can’t ever talk about anything heard in confessions. If sufficient care is taken to “anonymize†everything and make the details general, examples of moral situations can be discussed, which is important for seminary training. But care must be taken not to use any example that could reveal the identity of a penitent." It seems like there is a long standing practice of using perfectly anonymous examples of confessions, sufficiently concealed that they do not violate the Seal for the contents of any particular confession. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 can. 983 §1. The sacramental seal is inviolable; therefore it is absolutely forbidden for a confessor to betray in any way a penitent in words or in any manner and for any reason. It seems that the spirit of the law, as it were, is the absolute avoidance of betrayal of the penitent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted July 8, 2014 Share Posted July 8, 2014 Good sources! Thanks! That helps my understanding of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
add Posted July 8, 2014 Author Share Posted July 8, 2014 So are you shifting the focus now to a debate about religious freedom? I'm kind of confused on what you're looking to discuss, Add. Just stating the facts and nothing but the facts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Works the same way for doctors and lawyers. I often tell stories about my former clients, but I don't identify them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthfinder Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Works the same way for doctors and lawyers. I often tell stories about my former clients, but I don't identify them. Except they can be justifiably compelled by law to identify and talk about their clients. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Except they can be justifiably compelled by law to identify and talk about their clients. And it's probably not damning their souls to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CatherineM Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I would never have been compelled to testify against a client. As to damnation, I took an oath on a bible when I was sworn in as an attorney. Some people would believe that would damn me if I violated my oath. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandelynmarie Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Works the same way for doctors and lawyers. I often tell stories about my former clients, but I don't identify them. I do the same thing with my stories from the hospital. :) Hypothetical question: If a woman confesses to a priest that she intends to set a bomb off at the village square, could the priest give the information to the police without revealing her identity? Or would even that break the Seal of Confession? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 I do the same thing with my stories from the hospital. :) Hypothetical question: If a woman confesses to a priest that she intends to set a bomb off at the village square, could the priest give the information to the police without revealing her identity? Or would even that break the Seal of Confession? Breaks the Seal. The priest could not even go to the village square and try to convince people to leave. If he was planning on going down to the village square to buy bread later that evening, he would have to go anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandelynmarie Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Wow...thank you for answering. I had no idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 People tend to forget that actions can violate the Seal. Why is Father trying to get people to leave the square? Why did he change his schedule so much today? Does he know something? How did he find out? Did someone tell him? Was it during confession? Less direct perhaps, but just as much a violation. I remember my priest saying once "If someone told me in confession that there was a bomb under my car, then when I am going home I would get into my car just like I would normally do any other day." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Almost seems ridiculous. God would rather innocent people die in a bombing than the seal being broken ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted July 9, 2014 Share Posted July 9, 2014 Almost seems ridiculous. God would rather innocent people die in a bombing than the seal being broken ? If you are forced to choose, do you save the body or the soul? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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