Canon Law - Private Vows

[BarbTherese]

If I hve the nature of the debate forum all screwed up and a distinct possibility - no hastle to me and to me, no great drama involved....not to me anyway.

One can always report to the moderator and have the thread removed and no hastle to me either, nor drama. I really would not know - never used the feature.........ever.  I don't even know where it is - if it is somewhere.

Edited July 4, 2014 by BarbaraTherese

[AccountDeleted]

Ah I see! The debate is over whether there is anything to debate about? Time for some animated gifs I think.

 

 

 

 

 

[AccountDeleted]

Good heavens, why would anyone want to move this thread? It is only in the Debate Table that things seem to get interesting anymore. I am learning to love the Debate Table....... not because of any subject matter, just because it's so full of passion! How else could I find myself debating whether there is anything to debate :) And why would anyone want to report anything about this thread? I am just asking questions - not trying to cause offense. I'm agreeing with you woman!!! :)

 

Now I am definitely hoping that someone else posts on here with something controversial to say!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[CatherineM]

I'm so glad that I was able to bring some levity to the debate table. I suspect it was the autocorrect on my iphone.

I am in Edmonton. The seminary here trains priests from all across Western Canada. The bipolar seminarian is from Winnipeg, I think. He's been over to the house several times but my memory isn't cooperating right now. The deaf priest was a classmate of mine in several classes. He had this digital hearing aid thing he used for the prof's lectern. He ended up getting a Masters of Theology degree past his MDiv while waiting for final approval for ordination.

[AnneLine]

Catherine M, it is funny to say this, but the weird thing is that I read your comment, noticed it and thought at first... ah that must be from when that deacon was ordained and died the same day!   Maybe he had a 'near death experience' before that!   But when ARFink finally chimed in, I realized it was a typo.  It's PRICELESS!!!

 

Nunsense, I tend to stay OUT of the debate table because I'm the kind of person who just doesnt' like to fight and argue.  So usually I won't come in, if I do come in I won't stay very long, and I usually won't say much or anything.  I'm glad you're finding it a good place for you to enjoy your time on Phatmass.  :)

 

BarbaraTherese, I actually came in when you posted it because I thought it was your usual thread... and then couldn't figure out WHAT it was doing in Debate Table!  But now that makes sense.

 

I don't know if this would be helpful or not, but  Fr. Michael Buckley, OCD (one of the Carmelite Friars who is a specialist on canon law and the former Provincial Deligate for the OCDS in the Western USA) wrote a very interesting article on vows in the Secular Carmelites which is required reading before someone in that Province makes vows.  Some of what he writes may be of use for you.

 

Here's a link to his article:

 

http://www.ocds.info/formation%20guidelines/pdfs/formation%20pdfs/vows.pdf

 

Now some of that, obviously, is specifically about the OCDS vocation, but some of it discusses the distinction between private vows and public private vows.   If it is helpful, enjoy!

 

I do know that the OCDS make a BIG point that the vows are NOT a necessary part of the OCDS vocation, that they do NOT confer any special status on anyone, and that making Definitive Promises (i.e., final not temporary promises) is the point of full and complete membership in the Secular Order... and that therefore whenever the Promises are renewed devotionally (and OCDS do so publicly each year during the Easter Season) what is renewed is the PROMISE not the vows.  They are considered DIFFERENT things.  Fr. Michael explains the distinction well, I think.

 

But bottom line, as has been said above, I believe you're fine!

 

 

[cmaD2006]

Heh. I think it's ok here. Actually I think there's a better chance of getting a debate going on this topic in Vocation Station :p

But seriously it would have been fine in vocation staton too (although I'd move it if civility goes away akin to what has happened with other threads).

[BarbTherese]

 

Nunsense, thank you for the information shared.  CM, I am very grateful indeed for the welcome information you shared.  “Profoundly deaf” was cleverly incorporated with some very welcome information (I typed “pubic vows” at one point – and was very grateful once more for spell checker – and yet I was oh so very tempted to leave it as it was!)  AL, thank you too for what you have shared.

 

 As you said, AL, the link you gave was mainly for OCDS and their vows are different in that there is an incorporation into Carmel itself and with Church recognition in a more formal sort of manner.  I already understood the difference between temporary promises and actual vows.  I was many years (over 10yrs or more probably) making a vow or promise for one year and then renew the next year on the Feast of Our Lady of The Rosary, Oct 7. I sought advice from a priest who knew me very well indeed and after those 10yrs or so.  I asked Father his advice about making life private vows or perpetual private vows. As your document stated too and rightly: “A vow is a deliberate and free promise made to God concerning a possible and better good which must be fulfilled by reason of the virtue of religion.”

 

  Private vows and Bethany have nothing whatsoever to do with "status" – rather quite to the extreme contrary at the other end of the scale.  In making private vows I seek actively to remain fully in the lay state in secular life and to be "one of" and actively rather than apart in any way whatsoever as ‘taken out of’ or ‘separated from’ (all as stated in the rule for Bethany as way of life), which I am anyway by virtue of lay status in secular life and I knew this. (I do wonder sometimes - lol - how loudly I have to ‘shout’ this before the subject does not crop up again :) )  I was talking to my pp a few weeks ago and in our conversation, I said "I like to be just a face in the pews, Father".  Father wondered aloud where that left him.  I guess it could be said that my own vocation emphasizes a quality I appreciate and actively seek. 

 

I knew that the evangelical counsels were recommended to all but not in a stable way of life as with the consecrated state of life.  I vowed the evangelical counsels and in my own form of a stable way of life not in direct imitation of religious life as my focus, rather a seeking to walk in the footsteps of Jesus who was at all times and everywhere  poor, obedient and chaste which was a lifestyle that gave Glory to His Father, despite and yet because of the shocking Death of Jesus.  I sought and seek to live my personal journey and its situations and circumstances etc. as Jesus would do if He were me.  Tall order………and I know it – it is an aspiration and a goal an objective of a faulted, fallible and weak creature – one however, who is baptised and called to that mission and aided by Grace and The Holy Spirit all the way and most especially by The Mass and Sacramental Life of The Church, by the very and actual  Presence of Jesus most especially in The Blessed Eucharist……..and all that might be in-between, although all that says it all I think, without thinking too much.

 

What might need to be understood, I think, is that the understanding and insight into my own vocation was not a lightning bolt and a sudden flash of inspiration.  It was and still is a journey, an unfolding.

 

 

As Bethany unfolded as a way of life and when bipolar episodes were frequent and severe, what it gave me and that which I came to value highly and still do (and it is emphasized in my rule as a feature of the Bethany way of life) that one is shoulder to shoulder with all without any exceptions whatsoever.  I am firmly, by design and by choice, in the community of those despised and rejected, for example, and what I call "the 21st century lepers" and very happy and honoured to be here especially considering the teachings of Jesus e.g. “whatever you do to even the least of My brethren, you have done it to Me” and an assurance that Jesus is not at all like some secular and worldly thought.  He stands totally with one and all.  I belong to other communities within our general community.  Most of us probably do, I think. And even in other communities, even quite secular in nature, we have the same call and vocation.

 

 

Some years back our head of psychiatry, Dr Margaret Tobin, was murdered (by a fellow psychiatrist). At her Requiem Mass in our Cathedral, the eulogy was given by Dr Tobin’s brother.  He commented that those who are mentally ill were the most marginalised, abandoned and rejected members in the general community. I see this reflected in the Life and most especially in the Death of Jesus…..and in His Resurrection and the astounding consequences for our human history.  I see too the Life and Death of Jesus – and indeed His Resurrection reflected in the life of St Therese of Lisieux for one – and the astounding consequences, in our Catholic history for one, of the humble and hidden life of this great saint and Doctor of The Church…….after her death.  Hers is the life of a great saint which does give hope and aspiration, a sense of dignity, to the very least considered and valued wherever they may dwell in our midst.  Jesus after all lived a much hidden and quite humble life to our knowledge for 30 years.  His very public years were only three and he was hounded by criticism by ‘sound religious authority’ of His day and of His own Faith Profession  -  and His Life concluded with His shocking execution as a criminal.  His Resurrection came after His death of course, revealing His Glory and the Glory and Victory of His Terrible Death.  And this is not to reflect here on the life of His mother and another hidden and humble life with astounding consequences for our human history……….after her death.

 

Our own Aussie St Mary of The Cross (Mary MacKillop) also journeyed on earth with much suffering in her life, even excommunication for a while, later lifted.

 

Because our Residents in Heaven are so admired by us here on earth and held up for admiration when canonized, we can forget just how much their lives on earth were often troubled and very difficult for many of them. It is not so much often what they suffered - as how they suffered what they suffered.

 

   I am equal to the most corrupt of sinners and to the greatest of the earth bound virtuous (and all the in-betweens) and simply because we find our equality in that we are all equally beloved children of God created by Him for a life purpose and final purpose and embracing all without exemption.  We ARE ALL beloved children of The Father. This is not an intellectual reasoning of mine although it probably is in part.  Rather it is more so something that I do feel very deeply, in my bones as it were, and with conviction on my part which fashions my attitude to others – never without falling at times however. Sometimes to behave in a manner that reflects what I really do believe can be quite a challenge, even quite a sacrifice to pride and ego. For me, pride and ego are always lurking somewhere or other. Most often, happily, it is not at all difficult if one strives to incline oneself towards the good in a person, rather than inclined towards the opposite in them (my rule of life again). That attitude and belief is an aspiration and goal, ideal, in my rule of life.  “In Him WE live and move and have OUR being” Astounding words of St Paul the great apostle and mystic.  See Chapter 17 of Acts – Paul is persecuted and yet continues his mission and in one part, with some humour, at least in modern terms and perhaps even in his own cultural understanding. http://www.drbo.org/chapter/51017.htm   

 

Scripture is not at all without moments of real humour.  ( “Between Heaven and Mirth” - Fr James Martin)

 

Where some might misunderstand the term “Private Vows” and for my purposes and the subject in general, it is a Canon Law term with its own definition and regulations.  In secular understanding “private” might mean ‘secret’ or similar.  Rather a quick check of the dictionary.com definition is multiple http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/private and also incorporates the Canon Law meaning i.e.

 

• belonging to some particular person

• pertaining to or affecting a particular person or a small group of persons; individual; personal

 

To my way of thinking, if others do misunderstand the term “private vows” then best to express it and one can try to respond and clarify.  No problem whatsoever to me.  If someone has a question, no matter what it might be, then to me, it is worthy of an answer.

 

____________

 

Re Receiving and Renewal of my private vows at a Home Mass.  It is not as if I have done this lightly and without spiritual advice - and permission through our Vicar General, who consulted our Archbishop, who gave his permission  - and then, as required, from my parish priest, since the Home Mass would take place in his parish. All has proceeded as it should and needed to proceed.

 

Re debating.  I did have a look at the Forum Rules.  I try to stay in touch with the various rules wherever they may be stated here or elsewhere - but am often remiss and fail. â€œAll authority comes from God” (St Paul).  I couldn't see any reason why I could not pose the question I did flowing from something that I had read i.e. that public vows are a public act of worship by The Church, which set me wondering re private vows and their place if any – since, as it seemed to me, that it must follow as theologically logical and reasonable, that private vow or vows (of any kind) are therefore a private act of worship by The Church. The one hesitancy I have is that the fact that The Church has created the consecrated state of life (public vows) may mean something theologically that I am missing – and a distinct potential at least.  I do not know.   If I am wrong in posing the question into debate, then that is ok with me too - no heresy committed.  I really would not know re debate forums. The question posed for debate is as in my opening post - if any debate does indeed follow.  If not, no problem – objective still attained.  To further reveal my own thinking - everything we who are baptised say think and do is either an act of worship - or the opposite, since  "In Him we live, move and breathe and have our being" (see Acts Ch17) Astounding statement!

 

I once asked a priest religious and theologian: “What exactly is liturgy, Father?” He replied: “Everything you say, think and do”.

 

 Think about it.

 

I also looked up "debate" on Google http://dni.idebate.org/about/debate/what

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[BarbTherese]

Heh. I think it's ok here. Actually I think there's a better chance of getting a debate going on this topic in Vocation Station :P

But seriously it would have been fine in vocation staton too (although I'd move it if civility goes away akin to what has happened with other threads).

 

Thank you. :)

[BarbTherese]

I did think it just might be/could be quite contentious and heated as at least a possibility - hence debate forum. I did want to avoid any possibility of debate in the Open Mic thread. I certainly knew when I posted that I would stand my ground unless someone had more sound and informed information theologically than I do - and this was a possibility at least, but I would want to have something very sound to back up that information - not just opinion and no matter how many letters came after the name. 

 

I did give an address to an assembly here in Adelaide by invitation on "Women's Role in The Church" and spoke as a lay person with private vows to the evangelical counsels with a specific Gospel way of life - and who suffered a mental illness.  After my address and with His Grace and some other panel members with impressive letters after their name fired some questions, which I answered - and I still retain fond memories of that day.  Must admit, however, that after that address and the questions and answers, I fled to the bus stop (and a smoke) and a bus home to Bethany again - still laughing.  His Grace did say to me prior to my address at half time "Don't be nervous, Barbara".  "I'm not nervous, Your Grace" and very very strangely, I wasn't. Perhaps I had dropped half an Oxazepam, I really cannot recall.

I had been told initially I had ten minutes for the address, I was contacted just before the assembly to say I had much longer.  It was all recorded and videod.  I was still trying to alter my written down address on the bus to the assembly in an effort to make it much longer. In the end totally confused really and in the address, I just ad-libbed the whole thing.

My joke at the end fell flat on its face, perhaps due to my stunned audience : "Thank goodness we do not have to learn this new Catholic Catechism off by heart as we did pre Vatican II" as I glanced briefly at His Grace.  His Grace was smiling - if no one else.

 

 I have put a link to this thread into my thread on Private Vows Home Mass in Open Mic.

[BarbTherese]

I used to have a saying for myself in my previous suburb - now 5 years ago In September 2014.  It was a suburb rife with poverty and every imaginable I think social problem.  They were very suspicious of me when I first shifted there (Bethany was there for 30 years but actually began in a previous suburb while I was still trying to stay in the workforce, despite bipolar episodes, and had a car and rented house - prior to being pensioned off on disability, now age pension).  I think they were so suspicious of me because I was so friendly trying to get to know my neighbours.  The saying for myself I had was "If you can't beat 'em, infiltrate".

They used to call me "The crazy lady" (even before they knew of my mental illness).  By the time I left, they didn't call me crazy any more.........just plain "Barb" - although down the local pub whenever I walked in, the cry went up "The flying nun!" :)  Once down the local after Mass reading our local Catholic magazine "The Southern Cross" and drinking coke.  Some guy came up to me and said "You are not wanted here".  I replied "Oh I didn't know that, I am just here to read the paper and have a drink on Sunday".  He paused for a bit, I don't know, perhaps waiting for me to leave.  I just continued to read. And then said "Can I sit down?" "Sure, have a seat".  We sat quiet for a bit and then some exchange of weather etc. and then he said:  "My wife and I have just split up...........etc................".............

I got to know an aboriginal family near me after taking a jar of coffee as a welcoming gift.  I was instructed by a male voice to go away, so I left the coffee with a welcome note on the front verandah and left.  His wife told me further down the line that I was the only white person he would allow in the house.  My big mistake was the night they all decided to go down the local and dragged me along - and we eventually were kicked out by the bouncers after I had spent all my pension buying drinks for them. :)  Truly great people and overly generous and thoughtful to family and friends - just do not get our culture at times and not one bit.  Their sense of the funny was delightful.

 

I was amazed one night over for coffee and visitors arrived with quite a few children.  The noise in the house of children arguing and playing was alarming.  After a while my neighbour got up and said "Cmon kids, time for bed".  I could see the children forming a line out of the bathroom as they had a wash.  They were settled in the lounge wherever there was space and after a while, on decidedly assertive instructions and some arguing, almost sudden silence descended and remained.

 

Very fond memories indeed, and I miss them all............. and I've probably more anecdotes than the proverbial cat with fleas. :)

[BarbTherese]

Heh. I think it's ok here. Actually I think there's a better chance of getting a debate going on this topic in Vocation Station :P

But seriously it would have been fine in vocation staton too (although I'd move it if civility goes away akin to what has happened with other threads).

 

A question, cmaD, does this mean that the subject of private vows and/or the lay celibate state can be raised in Vocation Station as a subject for a thread, or only in relation to a thread on consecrated life?  The rules on the forum seem a bit hazy to me - and not too difficult to confuse me:

 

"Phatmass shall only be used to promote vocations that have official diocesan approval. Any post that links to a website, community, or vocation that is not recognized by the Church shall result in a warning. Multiple warning shall result in a ban from Phatmass."

 

It raises that question (and ok to debate it in this thread - The Spirit leads where He May) whether the vocation to the lay celibate state (with our without any sort of private vows) is a vocation "recognized by The Church"?  The lay celibate state is mentioned in at least one Document pre VII I know of -  and then a couple after that Council - and favourably.  Certainly, the website of my own diocese states: "As well as the vocation to priesthood, religious life, marriage and single life, there is also vocation to the diaconate and to lay ecclesial ministry within the Church." http://www.adelaide.catholic.org.au/our-faith/vocations/what-is-a-vocation- Our Archbishop Philip Wilson was past president of the Aust. Catholic Bishops' Conference.

 

Must admit, it still seems to be a point of theological debate at times.

 

I'm not trying to be 'funny' but genuinely seeking the answer.

Edited July 5, 2014 by BarbaraTherese

[BarbTherese]

Mmm - this is a new one to me.   I accessed the above link via Google "archdiocese of Adelaide vocation" and the page came up ok.  I then went to the link in the left hand column and the page came up no problems i.e. "What is a vocation?"

The link I gave in my previous post comes up with "Page no longer available".  Perhaps the link is not correct somehow.

 

Edited July 5, 2014 by BarbaraTherese

[AccountDeleted]

A question, cmaD, does this mean that the subject of private vows and/or the lay celibate state can be raised in Vocation Station as a subject for a thread, or only in relation to a thread on consecrated life?  The rules on the forum seem a bit hazy to me - and not too difficult to confuse me:

 

"Phatmass shall only be used to promote vocations that have official diocesan approval. Any post that links to a website, community, or vocation that is not recognized by the Church shall result in a warning. Multiple warning shall result in a ban from Phatmass."

 

It raises that question (and ok to debate it in this thread - The Spirit leads where He May) whether the vocation to the lay celibate state (with our without any sort of private vows) is a vocation "recognized by The Church"?  The lay celibate state is mentioned in at least one Document pre VII I know of -  and then a couple after that Council - and favourably.  Certainly, the website of my own diocese states: "As well as the vocation to priesthood, religious life, marriage and single life, there is also vocation to the diaconate and to lay ecclesial ministry within the Church." http://www.adelaide.catholic.org.au/our-faith/vocations/what-is-a-vocation- Our Archbishop Philip Wilson was past president of the Aust. Catholic Bishops' Conference.

 

Must admit, it still seems to be a point of theological debate at times.

 

I'm not trying to be 'funny' but genuinely seeking the answer.

 

That is certainly an excellent question Barb. I think you have posted a lot in Open Mic and Transmundane Lane about your vocation and not so much in VS so perhaps it would be good to have some clarity on whether these posts belong in VS as well. I know that dUSt once started a thread about not using VS to post threads about marriage, even though it is an approved vocation of the Church (and a sacrament). I have pasted his opening post below with a link to the thread. The thread went on for 8 pages and it's worth reading through the whole thing, I think, for all the points of view. I know that you are not posting about marriage but I saw similarities in your question and the issue he raised. What belongs in which forum?

 

The thread quoted does state that everyone is free to post in VS, whether discerning religious life or not, and to discuss things like other vocations and marriage, but he was not wanting any threads started about marriage because his intention was for the forum to focus on religious life. It was probably assumed though that 'religious life' also includes other consecrated states such as CV, CH, or Deacon because these have certainly been discussed on VS (and threads started about them). His post makes no comment about starting threads about non-consecrated states such as the single lay celibate lifestyle however. So perhaps a ruling from him or a mod might be helpful to all of us?

 

The link is in the title of his thread.

 

DON'T START THREADS FOCUSING ON MARRIAGE IN HERE.

Started by dUSt, Dec 28 2011 10:20 AM

 

DUST

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Posted 28 December 2011 - 10:20 AM

CRAZY DOPE POST, YO!

I know marriage is a vocation, but this board is for phuture nuns and priests.
I know the name is "Vocation Station", but if you read the fine print under the description, it specifically indicates religious life.
Being married is great, but this board was created to foster and encourage religious vocations, which is a superior calling.

Thanks.

If you don't like it, then leave and go find a spouse who cares about your feelings.  :lol:

[BarbTherese]

LOL. Hi Nunsense, I vaguely recall the thread and certainly the post from Dust, which latter you quoted in full.  I did laugh at the time with a guilty feeling since that post ended in a rather nasty dismissal - and yet to my mind with a clever twist I thought (once it home, that is) and I laughed even more and felt even more guilty..........all as it were.  Ah well, tis dUSt and our fearless leader and he or she (unsure) makes the rules for Phatmass and when we join up it is either a direct statement one accepts or it is implied (to my mind) .......... I can't recall the details of joining up or registering or whatever it is called.  St Paul tells us that all authority comes from God in all, of course, that is not sinful. Romans Ch13 V1 - http://www.drbo.org/chapter/52013.htm

 

Be all this as it may, I will be very interested in cmaD's response as Phatmass Regulator because rules and regulations in organizations etc. can change.  Anyway, I will not be venturing over to the Vocations Phorum with a thread about the single lay celibate state as vocation without some sort of official Phatmass type leverage behind me :) ........even then, I would probably shake in my shoes going by some other past threads in VS.  Like AL, I do not embrace conflict - but sometimes it can be sorta shoved down one's throat as it were and one might need to stand ground.  I do think, however, that "Vocations Forum" is a bit of a misnomer if all potential vocations in The Church are not included - rather some emphatically excluded including a Sacramental call and vocation (marriage) - as a Catholic forum anyway, or at least a clearer statement in the rules for the forum.  Perhaps a change is in order .......... "The Some Vocations Station" :notme: and a "All other vocations Station". :notme:

But then who on earth am I.........just one of the troops! :)   I am happy to follow whatever is decided...........sin excepted of course! LOL

...............and just go with the flow.

 

The fine print under the title of the forum reads: "Contemplating religious life? It's a party for all you priest and nun wannabes!"...........nothing about only for priest and nun wannabes and anyone else back off and get out. Although the quote from dUSt's post you gave certainly makes his or her decision quite clear! Perhaps I am dense............ and happy to be there. :)

 

  :notworthy: All hail! dUSt!........... wherever and whoever you might be.

 

Rules for Phatmass http://www.phatmass.com/phorum-guidelines/

 

CCC 1900 The duty of obedience requires all to give due honor to authority and to treat those who are charged to exercise it with respect, and, insofar as it is deserved, with gratitude and good-will.

 

Pope St. Clement of Rome provides the Church's most ancient prayer for political authorities:¹⁸ "Grant to them, Lord, health, peace, concord, and stability, so that they may exercise without offense the sovereignty that you have given them. Master, heavenly King of the ages, you give glory, honor, and power over the things of earth to the sons of men. Direct, Lord, their counsel, following what is pleasing and acceptable in your sight, so that by exercising with devotion and in peace and gentleness the power that you have given to them, they may find favor with you."¹⁹   _____________ ...........things to do still at 8.09pm and a bed to hit at a reasonable time - Mass in the morning. Far too much time on this jolly computer.  One thing I have discovered today is that I can still use this laptop for Word and printing with the internet disconnected...........I think! :) Will check it out with Optus before I do anything rash I will regret.

Edited July 5, 2014 by BarbaraTherese

[AccountDeleted]

As usual Barb, you write with grace and a willingness to cooperate with authority. If anyone has read through that the whole thread of dUSt's, they will see that it generated a lot of emotion and heat, but a lot of charity as well -- with dUSt taking time to address all the issues that were raised. 

 

But of course, at the time, no one had even suggested a vocation such as your own, which might be unique in its application. I hope you get some kind of guidelines about starting a thread on it in VS, but by posting in the places you usually do, your threads about your vocation have probably had a lot more readers than they would over in VS, since some people in VS never step outside the place! :)

 

I meant to say that I loved your own post on dUSt's thread - which came around page 7. Here it is...

 

BARBARATHERESE

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Posted 29 December 2011 - 12:40 AM

'dUSt', on 29 Dec 2011 - 4:05 PM, said:

I don't understand what I could have done differently without making anybody mad. I want this to be a board that focuses on priesthood and religious life, because I think the church has placed great importance on that.
"The Vocation Station" has already been referred to by name in many articles, blogs, radio interviews, etc, so I don't think it would be a good idea to change it.

I'm honestly at a loss. I hope you all can forgive my lack of better leadership in this situation.

I think you leadership is absolutely spot on, dUSt! ...... I think that your initial statement "don't start focusing on marriage in here" was initially misunderstood in that we are not to initiate threads on any other subject but religious life and the priesthood in "Vocation Station" and fair enough - our instructions from leadership. This misunderstanding developed into what is a "vocation" and was probably off topic. Apologies there for "off topic". Because I have a personal problem with the term "Vocation Station" is purely and simply 'my problem' and nothing that causes me any sort of grief. "All authority comes from God" St Paul tells us and hence if you want it "Vocation Station" limited to threads on religious life and priesthood, so be it! You are our leadership and authority on Phatmass and personally I think you do a great job. We haven't been asked to date to plant cabbages upside down  :winner:(we have a saint who was asked to do so by her novice mistress. And so she did)
The fact that Phatmass Phorum and Vocation Station has such an excellent referral on the internet and elsewhere is the best of reasons to keep things as they have been - and that was threads on religious life and the priesthood in Vocation Station.
I think sub forums in the "Vocation Station" would be a good idea, but then I am only one of the troops - one of the 'faces in the pew' as it were with no other problems nor duties but to read and post away and at times to the headache, I am sure, of leadership and others.

We love youse all too, dUst!

God richly bless you and thank you for Phatmass Phorum and Vocation Station .............. I hope you had a great Christmas............Barb 

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