Calling Oneself Catholic While Rejecting Church Teaching

[Nihil Obstat]

Very "christian" of you.

Merely honesty. You seem to appreciate straight talk.
I thought you were leaving.

[Nihil Obstat]

I quoted Irenaeus and St. John earlier, and I think also Matthew. Not official enough?

[Perigrina]

Some people provoke their target group so that when a target responds with anger, they can taunt him for not living up to the religious ideal. Even if being patient and kind were not worthwhile for its own sake, it would be a useful strategy for dealing with this situation. 

[freudianslippers]

Treat others as you would like to be treated? May your god be as merciful to you as you have not been to me. I'm not trolling. I think you're a hypocrite. But it doesn't matter, you think well enough of yourself as it would seem.

Merely honesty. You seem to appreciate straight talk.
I thought you were leaving.

 

[Nihil Obstat]

Treat others as you would like to be treated? May your god be as merciful to you as you have not been to me. I'm not trolling. I think you're a hypocrite. But it doesn't matter, you think well enough of yourself as it would seem.

What would you like me to say to you?

[superblue]

 why some identify as Catholic while not actually knowing or understanding or accepting all the doctrines, dogmas, and tenets of Catholicism. They could be "cultural Catholic" or poorly taught converts. I'm not arguing against your choice of belief. Just discussing the original post.

 

 

Really , so to " Truly be Catholic " one must understand and accept all doctrines, dogmas, and tenets of the Catholic Church ?

 

And I understand you are trying to bring the topic back to point, but if this is really what the OP was asking or suggesting, I find that to be overly gross in judging.   I have no idea what a cultural catholic is, but I do understand what a poorly taught catholic or convert is, and that I would think would be every single Catholic starting from the most educated down from day one. And exactly who is to blame for us being poorly taught ? The buck has to stop some where on that lineage and it doesn't stop at the middle man.

 

 I wonder how " catholic " our Blessed Mother would have been considered by these standards, or is one going to argue that She perfectly understood what She was saying yes too ?  Or was her yes based on love and faith alone versus understanding and accepting everything of the Jewish teachings of the time ?  The Blessed Mother is the only truly perfect " Catholic ", and she did it with out all the  glory of a fancy education from some prestigious establishment, or sitting around in a fancy robe, with a fancy title that stated She knew more than everyone around Her and that in turn is the justification for Her saying Yes in the first place to what was asked of Her.

 

More over there are plenty of Saints, even including ones that were Popes, that even though they may have understood and accepted; perhaps even contributed to the doctrines, dogmas, and tenets of the Church; still made human mistakes and even human sins, with that stated , exactly how perfect must one be to actually be " Catholic ".  And then exactly where in scripture does it state that Christ scrutinized his disciples  to make sure they were worthy enough to follow Him ? And where is it stated anywhere that if one does not fully understand and accept everything that in turn means they are unworthy of Christ and the Church.

 

Better yet, perhaps we need a new inquisition one to investigate clergy themselves, from Cardinals all the way down to Deacons to make sure they know and accept absolutely everything that is being demanded by this question as well as on C.A.F, because if they don't know ; understand and accept everything, more over if they can not memorize verbatim all the prayers of the Mass with out looking at it on paper in some form, then perhaps they are unworthy of  the title they have been given let alone worthy enough to be a " Catholic ".

 

 

The only religion that I know of that is literally this harsh in judging is the Muslim religion, where in parts of the middle east, if your beard is not a certain length, you better fear for your life because guess what that means something is wrong with you, because of their rules and regulations that they created ( supposedly from the same divine help that ours are from ).

[freudianslippers]

Some people provoke their target group so that when a target responds with anger, they can taunt him for not living up to the religious ideal. Even if being patient and kind were not worthwhile for its own sake, it would be a useful strategy for dealing with this situation. 

 

I'm sorry if you feel anger. I've been angry enough times in my life. I come here when the pope hits the news just to see how Catholics respond. Honestly, I don't see anything that makes me regretful of my own decisions but perhaps you are happy looking at me and thinking how you could have ended up differently.

 

Not sure how to be patient or kind, if I could be honest for a moment here, I've never seen anyone on this site actually practicing those virtues. Most people are viscious and impatient trying to pusth their own agendas and not listening to anyone else here. . And I post thinking I'm an outsider but really, are any of you friends? I see so much cruelty in posts here.

 

And then I forget and don't login for a year. And come back and nothing has changed. But when I post, a few go from attacking each other to taking offense at my words. And if this is Christian, then none of you have ever followed a single word of that Galilean hippy claiming to be god.

 

And I'm done.
 

[Nihil Obstat]

Really , so to " Truly be Catholic " one must understand and accept all doctrines, dogmas, and tenets of the Catholic Church ?

And I understand you are trying to bring the topic back to point, but if this is really what the OP was asking or suggesting, I find that to be overly gross in judging. I have no idea what a cultural catholic is, but I do understand what a poorly taught catholic or convert is, and that I would think would be every single Catholic starting from the most educated down from day one. And exactly who is to blame for us being poorly taught ? The buck has to stop some where on that lineage and it doesn't stop at the middle man.

I wonder how " catholic " our Blessed Mother would have been considered by these standards, or is one going to argue that She perfectly understood what She was saying yes too ? Or was her yes based on love and faith alone versus understanding and accepting everything of the Jewish teachings of the time ? The Blessed Mother is the only truly perfect " Catholic ", and she did it with out all the glory of a fancy education from some prestigious establishment, or sitting around in a fancy robe, with a fancy title that stated She knew more than everyone around Her and that in turn is the justification for Her saying Yes in the first place to what was asked of Her.

More over there are plenty of Saints, even including ones that were Popes, that even though they may have understood and accepted; perhaps even contributed to the doctrines, dogmas, and tenets of the Church; still made human mistakes and even human sins, with that stated , exactly how perfect must one be to actually be " Catholic ". And then exactly where in scripture does it state that Christ scrutinized his disciples to make sure they were worthy enough to follow Him ? And where is it stated anywhere that if one does not fully understand and accept everything that in turn means they are unworthy of Christ and the Church.

Better yet, perhaps we need a new inquisition one to investigate clergy themselves, from Cardinals all the way down to Deacons to make sure they know and accept absolutely everything that is being demanded by this question as well as on C.A.F, because if they don't know ; understand and accept everything, more over if they can not memorize verbatim all the prayers of the Mass with out looking at it on paper in some form, then perhaps they are unworthy of the title they have been given let alone worthy enough to be a " Catholic ".


The only religion that I know of that is literally this harsh in judging is the Muslim religion, where in parts of the middle east, if your beard is not a certain length, you better fear for your life because guess what that means something is wrong with you, because of their rules and regulations that they created ( supposedly from the same divine help that ours are from ).

I quite literally felt a bit sick trying to read this post. I will attempt a response when I get home. :(

[Nihil Obstat]

I'm sorry if you feel anger. I've been angry enough times in my life. I come here when the pope hits the news just to see how Catholics respond. Honestly, I don't see anything that makes me regretful of my own decisions but perhaps you are happy looking at me and thinking how you could have ended up differently.

Not sure how to be patient or kind, if I could be honest for a moment here, I've never seen anyone on this site actually practicing those virtues. Most people are viscious and impatient trying to pusth their own agendas and not listening to anyone else here. . And I post thinking I'm an outsider but really, are any of you friends? I see so much cruelty in posts here.

And then I forget and don't login for a year. And come back and nothing has changed. But when I post, a few go from attacking each other to taking offense at my words. And if this is Christian, then none of you have ever followed a single word of that Galilean hippy claiming to be god.

And I'm done.

This post does not strike you at all as presumptuous or self-righteous?

[superblue]

 

 

And I'm done.
 

 

 

I like it when people say this, as if to say HA I HAVE BESTED YOU SIR ! If ya wana fight and play, just do it, but don't declare yourself the winner by saying that you are done. If ya really want to end it, don't read what someone says in response to what you say, and then move on, not only has that person wasted their breath on you, but they are now stuck with wondering if you even bothered to continue playing the game of grabby grab.

[PhuturePriest]

I'm sorry if you feel anger. I've been angry enough times in my life. I come here when the pope hits the news just to see how Catholics respond. Honestly, I don't see anything that makes me regretful of my own decisions but perhaps you are happy looking at me and thinking how you could have ended up differently.

 

Not sure how to be patient or kind, if I could be honest for a moment here, I've never seen anyone on this site actually practicing those virtues. Most people are viscious and impatient trying to pusth their own agendas and not listening to anyone else here. . And I post thinking I'm an outsider but really, are any of you friends? I see so much cruelty in posts here.

 

And then I forget and don't login for a year. And come back and nothing has changed. But when I post, a few go from attacking each other to taking offense at my words. And if this is Christian, then none of you have ever followed a single word of that Galilean hippy claiming to be god.

 

And I'm done.
 

 

I am truly friends with several people on here. I've even met several people on here, in fact, including Dust. None of those people are the ones who are openly not in line with Church teaching, but if they were, I wouldn't change a thing I've said. It's more loving to a friend to correct them and admonish the sinner (A spiritual work of mercy, mind you) than to sit around and act like it's perfectly okay for them to dissent against the Catholic Church. Sometimes, tough love is the answer. Not everything can be gooey and lovey-dovey.

[superblue]

I quite literally felt a bit sick trying to read this post. I will attempt a response when I get home. :(

 

 

Meh don't stress it, it was some kind of spontaneous brain fart of a rant/sarcasm .

 

Don't worry, Be Happy !

 

Sometimes my verbal diarrhea makes sense and has some good points, sometimes not, but I barely pay attention to what I say after I have said it.

[freudianslippers]

I like it when people say this, as if to say HA I HAVE BESTED YOU SIR ! If ya wana fight and play, just do it, but don't declare yourself the winner by saying that you are done. If ya really want to end it, don't read what someone says in response to what you say, and then move on, not only has that person wasted their breath on you, but they are now stuck with wondering if you even bothered to continue playing the game of grabby grab.

 

No, it's not that. It's that I feel like I'm the only kid on the playground who doesn't fit in and is very unwelcome. It doesn't matter what I say or what I believe. I am not welcome here. And I get that, I'm not Catholic. And you have your little clique.

 

I don't think I'm smarter, I have my baggage like anyone else. But the moment I express my opinion, both sides descend. It's quite depressing because I'm told this will happen and then I tell them my friends it won't and then it does. :(

[Anomaly]

Really , so to " Truly be Catholic " one must understand and accept all doctrines, dogmas, and tenets of the Catholic Church ?

And I understand you are trying to bring the topic back to point, but if this is really what the OP was asking or suggesting, I find that to be overly gross in judging. I have no idea what a cultural catholic is, but I do understand what a poorly taught catholic or convert is, and that I would think would be every single Catholic starting from the most educated down from day one. And exactly who is to blame for us being poorly taught ? The buck has to stop some where on that lineage and it doesn't stop at the middle man.

I wonder how " catholic " our Blessed Mother would have been considered by these standards, or is one going to argue that She perfectly understood what She was saying yes too ? Or was her yes based on love and faith alone versus understanding and accepting everything of the Jewish teachings of the time ? The Blessed Mother is the only truly perfect " Catholic ", and she did it with out all the glory of a fancy education from some prestigious establishment, or sitting around in a fancy robe, with a fancy title that stated She knew more than everyone around Her and that in turn is the justification for Her saying Yes in the first place to what was asked of Her.

More over there are plenty of Saints, even including ones that were Popes, that even though they may have understood and accepted; perhaps even contributed to the doctrines, dogmas, and tenets of the Church; still made human mistakes and even human sins, with that stated , exactly how perfect must one be to actually be " Catholic ". And then exactly where in scripture does it state that Christ scrutinized his disciples to make sure they were worthy enough to follow Him ? And where is it stated anywhere that if one does not fully understand and accept everything that in turn means they are unworthy of Christ and the Church.

Better yet, perhaps we need a new inquisition one to investigate clergy themselves, from Cardinals all the way down to Deacons to make sure they know and accept absolutely everything that is being demanded by this question as well as on C.A.F, because if they don't know ; understand and accept everything, more over if they can not memorize verbatim all the prayers of the Mass with out looking at it on paper in some form, then perhaps they are unworthy of the title they have been given let alone worthy enough to be a " Catholic ".


The only religion that I know of that is literally this harsh in judging is the Muslim religion, where in parts of the middle east, if your beard is not a certain length, you better fear for your life because guess what that means something is wrong with you, because of their rules and regulations that they created ( supposedly from the same divine help that ours are from ).

You seem to be in a nasty hot mood tonight.

No, you don't have to be super intelligent. As has been pointed out recently, one only needs a Catachism, St Joseph's Bible, and a little quiet time to learn more about Catholicism.

If someone challenges you, look it up. The Google is a wonderful tool.

Once that is done, you can still visit here or CAFvand three opinions of hoe you're right, and three on how you're wrong. Either way, you have to comfortable with your choice.

Early in the Catechism, it talks about how God speaks to all souls. Do yourself a favor, look it up and spend a half hour contemplating it. No degree or Catholic ID required.

[chrysostom]

I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God.

 

This line has particular relevance, I think, because it is the basic profession of faith that RCIA candidates make upon their reception into full communion with the Catholic Church.  It's pretty straightforward.  It is what the Catholic Church herself asks of those becoming Catholic.

 

The issue, though, is more fundamental.  It's not merely about getting a straightforward "yes" or "no" to that profession of faith.  It's a matter of the identity of the Church herself.

 

Is the Catholic Church the Bride and Body of Christ?  Is she united to Christ her head?  If so, her faith cannot waver, and she cannot teach what is false, for Christ himself cannot deceive nor be deceived, who united Himself to her on the marriage bed of the Cross and with His blood made her pure and white as snow.

 

One way around this would be to say that the Bride of Christ is an entity other than the Catholic Church.  But I don't imagine we are going to go down that road in this thread.