Perigrina Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 John wants the Church to take the "sex for the sake of sex" approach, and not the "sex as a means to an end; sanctification and union with God" approach. That seems unlikely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
freudianslippers Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Just to interject a thought or 2. Islam and Catholicism are 2 religions whose ideas and goals are directly contradictory. According to Islam, Jesus is a prophet who is less than Mohammed but somewhat equal to Moses. None of my Muslim friends think that their religion is equal to Christianity. Muslims do NOT believe that Jesus is God, end of discussion there. Catholics do. That is a BIG fundamental difference. I was taught as a child that there is an infiinte distance between one who is god and one who is not. It doesn't take belief in either religion to understand this. Just a thought. Amd my references? I don't consider myself a Catholic though I was baptized as an infant and raised in the traditional latin rite. A friend once called me a lapsed Catholic, I prefer the term born again pagan. While I respect my dear family. I pray to Joe Pesci. :flex2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Hopefully John is not a lecher, that would be unfortuante I don't think John is a lecher. I think John is afraid to let God do the driving so to speak. God seems safe and manageable from a distance. Yet the problem is this is not how a loving relationship works. There has to be trust. Reserving your love -even a small portion- is detrimental to a relationship where unity is the end goal. If a man came home to his wife and said honey I got a new secretary. She is beautiful and funny, but don't worry I still love you 90% and her only 10%. No self respecting wife would take that. No, she would say as Christ said; "he who is not with me, is against me." When it comes to true love It's a 100% or nothing, and the hardest part of this 100% is giving your trust to another without knowing what will happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 because you then require them to ignore their intellect for blind obedience to obey other men with a myth those men are divinely guided. Quite an assumption. Similar to the assumptions Lillabet made earlier. So in short I should stop looking towards an infallible Church for guidance and start looking toward the infallible me for said guidance? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perigrina Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 because you then require them to ignore their intellect for blind obedience to obey other men with a myth those men are divinely guided. Quite an assumption. Similar to the assumptions Lillabet made earlier. The Church does not teach us to ignore our intellects or to have blind obedience. That is not how the teaching authority of the Church works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I think the bottom line is this — if you call yourself a Catholic but don't believe in the teaching authority of the Church on faith and morals, you cease to be in good standing with the Church, and are placing yourself outside of her. I understand the struggle with understanding what the Church teaches, but she asks for us to assent to her authority even if we don't completely understand. If you choose, instead, to reject what you don't understand, then you are doing nothing more than window shopping, from the outside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedictus Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Just to interject a thought or 2. Islam and Catholicism are 2 religions whose ideas and goals are directly contradictory. According to Islam, Jesus is a prophet who is less than Mohammed but somewhat equal to Moses. None of my Muslim friends think that their religion is equal to Christianity. Muslims do NOT believe that Jesus is God, end of discussion there. Catholics do. That is a BIG fundamental difference. I was taught as a child that there is an infiinte distance between one who is god and one who is not. It doesn't take belief in either religion to understand this. Just a thought. Amd my references? I don't consider myself a Catholic though I was baptized as an infant and raised in the traditional latin rite. A friend once called me a lapsed Catholic, I prefer the term born again pagan. While I respect my dear family. I pray to Joe Pesci. :flex2: I read the last line and I instantly thought of the comedian George Carlin :hehe2: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 because you then require them to ignore their intellect for blind obedience to obey other men. Also I am a man. You're saying I can blindly follow myself and my whims as the standard bearer of truth, but I can't put this trust toward another human being or toward God and His Church? That behavior seems rather hypocritical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedictus Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 This thread is not about Islam so I'm not getting into how Christians can be Muslims and Muslims can be Christians. If you want to read something from the Catholic perspective about it I suggest Louis Massignon. The point is that this is not the way that orthodox Islam understands itself. This is not the consensus of the ummah. So I will not be claiming I am a muslim any time soon. I'm not preaching any doctrine of any religion, actually. This is not a religious observance its a fundamental human one. A personal integrity thing. Do not claim to be something you are not. Period. Well you brought it up in the first place. I am honest about what I am and what I believe. You seem to be the one with the issue telling folks what's the deal like some Pope. In the same tone I could say your integrity is measured by how you live out what you claim to believe. If you want to be a saint, live like one. Don't just think you're already one on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Also I am a man. You're saying I can blindly follow myself and my whims as the standard bearer of truth, but I can't put this trust toward another human being or toward God and His Church? That behavior seems rather hypocritical. Wow - incredible way to counter that old "blind obedience" argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Well you brought it up in the first place. I am honest about what I am and what I believe. You seem to be the one with the issue telling folks what's the deal like some Pope. In the same tone I could say your integrity is measured by how you live out what you claim to believe. If you want to be a saint, live like one. Don't just think you're already one on here. ah yes. taking for myself the powers of the Petrine office, chief among them "telling folks what's the deal." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ryan Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 John wants the Church to take the "sex for the sake of sex" approach, and not the "sex as a means to an end; sanctification and union with God" approach. I want a sex for the sake of love approach, which is sanctification and union with God. This is simply not true. The Church does not teach that sex is an evil thing. The Church teaches that abuses and perversions of sex are evil. She puts limits around sex so that it can be good and holy. The Church presents us with a vision of sexuality lived in integrity, rather than the sick and fragmented vision of the world. The teaching about sex is one of the best things about being Catholic. The Vatican teaches that sex in and of itself, that is separate from procreation, is evil. Sex is a desire for sensuality that is not intrinsically linked to the notion of procreation. In fact, one of the primary motivations for sex is closeness/oneness with the other. The Vatican teaches that this in and of itself is evil. I don't think John is a lecher. I think John is afraid to let God do the driving so to speak. God seems safe and manageable from a distance. Yet the problem is this is not how a loving relationship works. There has to be trust. Reserving your love -even a small portion- is detrimental to a relationship where unity is the end goal. If a man came home to his wife and said honey I got a new secretary. She is beautiful and funny, but don't worry I still love you 90% and her only 10%. No self respecting wife would take that. No, she would say as Christ said; "he who is not with me, is against me." When it comes to true love It's a 100% or nothing, and the hardest part of this 100% is giving your trust to another without knowing what will happen. Blah, blah, blah... I am tired of answering this same charge over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superblue Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 John Ryan, what about those teens who are in the Catholic Church and have engaged in premarital sex, should they be scorned ? and how dare you once again suggest an opinion to insinuate that the Catholic Churches' teaching on sex might be wrong, how dare you have an opinion that does not go along with everyone else here, and I think it is high time that you sir be labeled phishy we all know you are just faking being catholic come on now . ** Pulls up my big boy pants ** An I can say for certain you are phishy because I do everything the Church tells me to do with out even asking why so there is my authority for doing so. Wait, do those Catholics who engage in premarital sex are they also doomed to burn in purgatory or do they just go straight to hell ??? I need someone way more educated than me to clue me in because there are some hormonal teens running around my area that might be Catholic and I need to let them know they are dancing with the devil . That and where can I get some phishy stickers on here cause if they reject what I am saying I am going to give them the sticker instead. :buddies2: :w00t: :pirate: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 Hold it. Take a minute to breathe. Let us remember peace and love. okay, go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedictus Posted June 25, 2014 Share Posted June 25, 2014 John Ryan, what about those teens who are in the Catholic Church and have engaged in premarital sex, should they be scorned ? and how dare you once again suggest an opinion to insinuate that the Catholic Churches' teaching on sex might be wrong, how dare you have an opinion that does not go along with everyone else here, and I think it is high time that you sir be labeled phishy we all know you are just faking being catholic come on now . ** Pulls up my big boy pantaloons ** An I can say for certain you are phishy because I do everything the Church tells me to do with out even asking why so there is my authority for doing so. Wait, do those Catholics who engage in premarital sex are they also doomed to burn in purgatory or do they just go straight to hell ??? I need someone way more educated than me to clue me in because there are some hormonal teens running around my area that might be Catholic and I need to let them know they are dancing with the devil . That and where can I get some phishy stickers on here cause if they reject what I am saying I am going to give them the sticker instead. :buddies2: :w00t: :pirate: You just made me :lol: ** Pulls up my big boy pantaloons ** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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