stevil Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I'm sorry. I would like to answer your question but it does not make sense to me. I suspect that our assumptions are too different for communication to be possible.Yeah, I probably use the word "faith" quite differently to you.By faith in the people, I mean trust, by trust I mean to resist the urge to control or guide (unsolicitated) and to instead respect the other's position and choices, to respect their intent, to respect that they are on their own journey and "rightly" or "wrongly" it is their own chosen journey.By faith in the church I mean that the people trust that the church's intent is in their own best interests and that any advice has been thoroughly thought through from their perspective.For me this is a constant challenge regarding how I approach my friends and family (esp my daughters). I know I need to have faith in them to live their own lives and I need to support them along their chosen journey rather than try to control them or to prevent them from making mistakes.I don't demand that they have faith in me in reciprocal. I would actually prefer them to be skeptical of any advice I offer and challenge or disregard it as they see fit. I want my girls to grow up and become independent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrysostom Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I believe and profess all that the holy Catholic Church believes, teaches, and proclaims to be revealed by God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ryan Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) It is so interesting to me that almost every single time I hear the actual problems Catholics have with Church teaching, it is regarding sex. And it always seems to be because people want to have more and more sex without consequences. Maybe that's the reason for the Theology of the Body. Sex is a central part of being a human being, however much some people may want to eradicate it for a Platonic celibate ideal. It should come as no surprise that it is one of the central points of contention, especially when the Vatican's position is so anti-sex. When you strip away all the sugar-coating that Vatican II has given us, the Vatican still believes that sex is an evil thing. Edited June 24, 2014 by John Ryan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 This may ring true for you (all or nothing), but maybe some people see great value in belonging to the Catholic faith, see a close (but not exact) alignment with themselves and the church's values. Agreement on most of the big ticket items but some disagreements as well. Maybe they are finding their way towards towing the Catholic line (to the letter) or maybe they never will, but they still associate and affiliate themselves because they see it as a "best fit" for themselves. The Church has always been quite clear that it is not a "close enough" option. The Church has stated again and again that it is an all or nothing thing. Jesus himself said you can't serve two masters. You're either fully in, 100% Catholic, or you're not a Catholic at all. You can be a fully in, 100% Catholic and still not fully understand everything, and still have things you're not sure on, but you must be searching for the answers and believe the Church is infallible on doctrinal matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perigrina Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 Yeah, I probably use the word "faith" quite differently to you. By faith in the people, I mean trust, by trust I mean to resist the urge to control or guide (unsolicitated) and to instead respect the other's position and choices, to respect their intent, to respect that they are on their own journey and "rightly" or "wrongly" it is their own chosen journey. By faith in the church I mean that the people trust that the church's intent is in their own best interests and that any advice has been thoroughly thought through from their perspective. For me this is a constant challenge regarding how I approach my friends and family (esp my daughters). I know I need to have faith in them to live their own lives and I need to support them along their chosen journey rather than try to control them or to prevent them from making mistakes. I don't demand that they have faith in me in reciprocal. I would actually prefer them to be skeptical of any advice I offer and challenge or disregard it as they see fit. I want my girls to grow up and become independent. You are a person describing how you as a person relate to other people. But when you asked if Catholicism has faith in people, it did not make sense. Catholicism is an abstract noun, a religion, a belief system, not a person. It does not trust, have faith, or expectations. These are things that people do. How could a belief system trust or have an urge to control? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Sex is a central part of being a human being, however much some people may want to eradicate it for a Platonic celibate ideal. It should come as no surprise that it is one of the central points of contention, especially when the Vatican's position is so anti-sex. When you strip away all the sugar-coating that Vatican II has given us, the Vatican still believes that sex is an evil thing. What the heck are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Amen sister. Crazy to think you should utilize the good sense God gave you. lol. People can convince themselves of anything. We need magic people to tell us what to do. How is following God's Church not utilizing the good sense God gave you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Sorry, we're just 'garbage cans' that can go 'screw themselves' 'floppy bomb' 'floopy bomb', God is love! Thats not very nice to say! Whoever told you that can come speak to me and Ill set them straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Amen sister. Crazy to think you should utilize the good sense God gave you. lol. People can convince themselves of anything. We need magic people to tell us what to do. Problem is most people don't have good sense, and the little sense they do have they end up trying to rationalize their illogical behaviors Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 What the heck are you talking about? John wants the Church to take the "sex for the sake of sex" approach, and not the "sex as a means to an end; sanctification and union with God" approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 John wants the Church to take the "sex for the sake of sex" approach, and not the "sex as a means to an end; sanctification and union with God" approach. Hopefully John is not a lecher, that would be unfortuante Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perigrina Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 Sex is a central part of being a human being, however much some people may want to eradicate it for a Platonic celibate ideal. It should come as no surprise that it is one of the central points of contention, especially when the Vatican's position is so anti-sex. When you strip away all the sugar-coating that Vatican II has given us, the Vatican still believes that sex is an evil thing. This is simply not true. The Church does not teach that sex is an evil thing. The Church teaches that abuses and perversions of sex are evil. She puts limits around sex so that it can be good and holy. The Church presents us with a vision of sexuality lived in integrity, rather than the sick and fragmented vision of the world. The teaching about sex is one of the best things about being Catholic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) This is simply not true. The Church does not teach that sex is an evil thing. The Church teaches that abuses and perversions of sex are evil. She puts limits around sex so that it can be good and holy. The Church presents us with a vision of sexuality lived in integrity, rather than the sick and fragmented vision of the world. The teaching about sex is one of the best things about being Catholic. Yea, no one knows what he's talking about... the good thing is he's not really rejecting Church teaching, he's rejecting his imagined idea of Church teaching Edited June 24, 2014 by mortify ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perigrina Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 Hopefully John is not a lecher, that would be unfortuante There is no reason to think so and I find it objectionable for such a thing to even be implied in this discussion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 (edited) How is following God's Church not utilizing the good sense God gave you? because you then require them to ignore their intellect for blind obedience to obey other men with a myth those men are divinely guided. Quite an assumption. Similar to the assumptions Lillabet made earlier. Edited June 24, 2014 by Anomaly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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