4588686 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Is this what Orwell called double-speak? No. Double speak and nuance are two different things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Heh, yeah, true. There are (some) Russian Orthodox who venerate Stalin <_< I'm not kidding either. They have an icon to him. A wonderful example of what silly places religion leads people to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 A wonderful example of what silly places religion leads people to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 A wonderful example of what silly places religion leads people to. Oh, don't give that stereo typical atheist response. You're better than that, Hasan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 Condemning boogeyman socialism is not the same as real socialism, which was actually practiced in the New Testament Church. Not by any kind of governmental policy. Willfully giving away one's wealth is not the same thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I love how people who know nothing about actually living under a communist system like to promote it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted June 23, 2014 Share Posted June 23, 2014 I don't believe he's promoted the statist versions of socialism or communism. I understand that Marx believed the state would be necessary for a transition (like many believed the One Ring would be needed to defeat Sauron), but even that error is far different from arguing in favor of those animals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Ryan Posted June 24, 2014 Author Share Posted June 24, 2014 Not by any kind of governmental policy. Willfully giving away one's wealth is not the same thing. How about workers just take back all the products, machines and things they have created with their sweat and labor, and we leave the money where it is. Money will not matter very much if we switch to labor-voucher or abolish money altogether. I don't believe he's promoted the statist versions of socialism or communism. I understand that Marx believed the state would be necessary for a transition (like many believed the One Ring would be needed to defeat Sauron), but even that error is far different from arguing in favor of those animals. The State that Marx envisioned leading the transition is not the same State that existed in Soviet Russia, though. Marx advocated a fiercely democratic state that would lead the transition. At least in my reading of Marx, a vibrant democracy would have to come before socialist policies are enacted. I am not aware of any Leninist concept of a vanguard in Marx. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ardillacid Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Oh, don't give that stereo typical atheist response. You're better than that, Hasan. Where did you get this idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Where did you get this idea? Wut? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Orwell was actually a staunch communist himself! Orwell believed that the answer to 1984 was real communism. Was this sarcasm? No. Double speak and nuance are two different things. No. Being nuanced is different than being disingenuous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Was this sarcasm? Not every communist believes in the state version of communism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Was this sarcasm? No. It's pretty common knowledge that the man who wrote Homage to Catalonia was a socialist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NotreDame Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 Not every communist believes in the state version of communism. I'm talking about Orwell, who was not a communist, so I'm not sure the point here. No. It's pretty common knowledge that the man who wrote Homage to Catalonia was a socialist. Yes, common knowledge that he was a democratic socialist, never a marxist-socialist or communist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted June 24, 2014 Share Posted June 24, 2014 I'm talking about Orwell, who was not a communist, so I'm not sure the point here. Then why ask if he was being sarcastic? Why not simply show the contradictory evidence that Orwell didn't support communism? Unless your evidence is that he wrote a satire on totalitarianism employing communist rhetoric in order to maintain hierarchy that communists reject. My understanding is that Orwell was a democratic socialist, a different animal from a communist. But certainly reconcilable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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