Question - Women And Veiling Outside Of Mass (especially Cvs)

[oremus1]

I had a question on veiling.
Are there any other women who practice veiling outside of mass? Or as a Lenten practice?
I recently saw the USACV is strongly against CVs veiling in normal life, and has said that bishops are excluding candidates based on the way CVs dress. Is this true? what do you think?

Many of the Church Fathers, saints and in scripture, have written extensively about the veiling of virgins (in everyday life, not the reception of the veil in the Rite). You seldom see any depictions of our grat saints and Our Lady without veil.

Yet many people seem afraid of a veil today. they assume it is a sign of Islam - whereas many women of other religions including Jews and Christians veil - their tradition of veiling goes back further than the tradition in Islam.

they also are fearful that it is prideful. whereas I would say, unless you can read souls, you would not be able to assert that is the intention of the veil-wearer. they also say, a catholic must blend in with the world. whereas, in many places, a lady following St Padre Pio's guidance on modest dress will stand out. Most of the world does not dress in accordance with a well formed conscience in the area of catholic modesty. if everyone was wearing shorts, i would still think it immodest and would not.

they have cited cardinal burke, saying he has objected to the veiling of women. however, if they actually read his comment in context, they would find that he was talking about the religious veil for CVs, not a headscarf or hat.

if a CV dresses modestly with a veil in bright colours, she is drawing attention to herself. if she dresses in dull colours, she is imitating a religious. if she dresses in normal clothes, baring her legs and revealing her shape, she is worldly,. you cannot win.

i am very disappointed in the USACV's opinion in this area. from what I understand, they were discouraging the Mexican CVs from wearing a loose headscarf (google 'infinity veil' for images) in everyday life. whereas if those women had been normal laywomen, they would be able to veil without comment. I am also disappointed that they have said they veil in Mass as they are spouses of Christ and want to be distinctive, whereas if they actually research veiling in mass, ALL women used to veil in mass, and it would be nice if they encouraged ALL women to do so as a sign of reverence to Our Lord, rather than try to keep it as a private devotional practice for themselves only.

in general, I find that the USACV has not studied this area much and certainly should not be giving this sort of bad advice to people around the world. i went to the USACV convocation last year, and saw women with highlighted hair, dangly earrings, yellow shorts to mass. why is this acceptable but a headscarf is not? veiling should  be for the person and their confessor. how sad it is if the CVs who should be the bastion of female modesty are exhorting CVs to conform to the world.  how sad it is if modest dress became the exclusive preserve of islam. from what i understand, the USACV is mostly charismatic catholics, and many are Extraordinary Eucharistic Ministers. If they want to have reverence for God, perhaps they should pay less attention to the women in the pew in a headscarf, and more attention to say, communion in the hand, and lay-people distributing the Host....

is anyone else scandalised by this advice? See below. Sorry for the large gap, I cannot move it upward. this is from the USACV Lamp newsletter on 31 May 2014

 

Readers respond

 

Readers were impacted by the red color of the pictured veil, by the “eternity” style of the veil, and by the

 

thought of the consecrated virgin in today’s world wearing this style and color veil, or any veil, for private or public

 

prayer. It is also clear from the responses that the cultural diversity both within the United States, and in other coun-

 

tries, significantly impacts a person’s reaction to seeing a virgin wearing a veil of any sort. Because our vocation is

 

lived in the world, readers are rightly concerned about the message that is conveyed with the wearing of the veil. At

 

the same time, our life is not of the world, and readers are aware that we live as witnesses to the “eschatological image

 

of the world to come” (Rite of Consecration, #1).

 

A number of responses pointed out that the red color and particular style of the eternity veil could readily be

 

misinterpreted as a Muslim jihab. Others noted that the wearing of any mantilla or veil by a Catholic woman is often

 

misinterpreted as a sign that one holds on to past practices and would advocate that all Catholic women should wear a

 

head-covering during Mass. Others noted that they did not receive the veil during the Consecration ceremony for the

 

very reason that they did not want to be misinterpreted as a woman religious.

 

Marion Strishock, a consecrated virgin of the Archdiocese of Washington (D.C.), summarized well the con-

 

cerns that were expressed: “I wanted to give you my feedback regarding the eternity veils. The only reminder of our

 

consecration should be the ring on our finger. A married woman does not wear a veil in public to remind her of her

 

marriage. We are called to live the hidden life of Mary, not drawing attention to ourselves but to the light of Christ. It

 

is one thing to wear a veil during Mass, as a sign of humility before God. Although the eternity veil is not worn on the

 

head in public, it is still very distinctive and draws attention to oneself. It says look at me rather than look at how I

 

live. Our vocation puts us in the world, not removed from it, so we should not wear a special garment. That is meant

 

for someone living in community. I have heard of bishops who are hesitant to support the vocation because of conse-

 

crated virgins who have dressed differently as though they were religious. What we do can impact another woman’s

 

ability to be consecrated in the future.”

 

Marion’s comments echo the words of Cardinal Burke in regard to the wearing of the veil – it is an ancient

 

and important symbol of espousal to Christ, to be worn in humility and not in daily life. Often as we virgins are gath-

 

ered together for Holy Mass or in prayer at a Convocation or at a celebration of the Rite of Consecration, a number

 

choose to wear a mantilla (usually white) or other veil as an outward expression of our lives lived as brides of Christ.

 

Some wear a veil or mantilla to daily Mass in their parish. The February article in Something Ancient, Something New

 

inspired some consecrated virgins to begin to wear a white veil to Mass or in personal prayer, again, as an expression

 

of their own espousal to Christ.

 

Edited June 21, 2014 by oremus1

[Perigrina]

What Marion Strishock is saying there makes sense to me and does not scandalize me at all.

 

If it matters, I am a married woman who wears a mantilla when in the Presence of the Blessed Sacrament. 

[oremus1]

What Marion Strishock is saying there makes sense to me and does not scandalize me at all.

 

If it matters, I am a married woman who wears a mantilla when in the Presence of the Blessed Sacrament. 

Deo gratias for that. I would like the USACV to be exhorting ALL women to veil in front of the Blessed Sacrament. I don't see why what was once regarded as a sign of modesty and devotion, and indeed a tradition of our saints, should suddenly be feared and forbidden. i also don't see why laywomen can veil all the time if they wish but CVs, who are espoused to Christ himself, should not. they should have researched why nuns wear veils. it is not just as a mark of distinctive dress. then they would see that those reasons equally apply to CVs.

[oremus1]

in case you are unsure of my influences, i love modernism, charismatic communities, immodesty, christian folk music at mass, communion in the hand and bare-headed female EMHCs. 

[Perigrina]

in case you are unsure of my influences, i love modernism, charismatic communities, immodesty, christian folk music at mass, communion in the hand and bare-headed female EMHCs. 

 

:lol: Well that explains everything.

[oremus1]

:lol: Well that explains everything.

LOL indeed, bless you dear. But I wish that the USACV would have respected the diversity of conscience within the church with regards to this matter. thre are some traditional catholics who are scandalised by women wearing trousers. yet there are some charismatic catholics who are scandalised by women wearing mantillas in mass.

[Perigrina]

I do not know much about CVs, but it seems to me that this creates an opportunity for those who want to cover their heads to submit their wills for Christ's sake.

 

When I first wanted to wear a mantilla to Mass, we were at a parish in which virtually no other women did this.  My husband was very uncomfortable with me doing it.  He thought it would draw attention to me.  He did not want me to wear one. So I did not wear one.  I thought a real act of submission was better than a symbol of submission.  

 

Eventually my husband changed his mind and now it is my normal practice.

[oremus1]

I do not know much about CVs, but it seems to me that this creates an opportunity for those who want to cover their heads to submit their wills for Christ's sake.

 

When I first wanted to wear a mantilla to Mass, we were at a parish in which virtually no other women did this.  My husband was very uncomfortable with me doing it.  He thought it would draw attention to me.  He did not want me to wear one. So I did not wear one.  I thought a real act of submission was better than a symbol of submission.  

 

Eventually my husband changed his mind and now it is my normal practice.

Perhaps if he knew your reasons for wanting to be veiled, he would have understood? praise God that he had the grace to change his mind.

 

The USACV are laywomen, most without any theological degrees. they are not an authoritative body by any means and certainly not for ones outside the USA - although they do represent a large number of CVs. and certainly in circumstances where their advice conflicts with church tradition, ones spiritual director, and many great saints, I would suggest they are not to be followed.

 

[Perigrina]

I can see that you do not have the same obligation to obey the USACV that I have to obey my husband. 

[Anastasia13]

What are all these accronym s?

[oremus1]

What are all these accronym s?

CV = consecrated virgin
USACV = USA Association of consecrated virgins
 

[Perigrina]

Here is the website: http://consecratedvirgins.org/about

 

The United States Association of Consecrated Virgins (USACV) is a voluntary association for women in the United States who have received the Consecration of Virgins for women living in the world, according to the pertinent provisions of Canon Law. The Association is formed in accord with Canon 604.2, "Virgins can be associated together to fulfill their pledge more faithfully and to assist each other to serve the Church in a way that befits their state."

The objectives of the association are threefold:

1. to foster communication, solidarity, and support among consecrated virgins living within the jurisdiction of the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops.

2. to encourage ongoing in-depth growth of understanding of consecrated virginity, along with other consecrated virgins throughout the world; and

3. to promote an accurate understanding of the nature of the vocation of consecrated virginity through programs of education, printed materials and other media, especially for those contemplating the vocation of consecrated virginity lived in the world.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Perigrina

[Anastasia13]

Thank you.

 

I was actually just recently wondering about veiling outside of liturgy. Corinthians 11 I think it was talks about women covering their heads when praying and First Thessalonians 5 says to pray without ceasing.

[OnlySunshine]

Deo gratias for that. I would like the USACV to be exhorting ALL women to veil in front of the Blessed Sacrament. I don't see why what was once regarded as a sign of modesty and devotion, and indeed a tradition of our saints, should suddenly be feared and forbidden. i also don't see why laywomen can veil all the time if they wish but CVs, who are espoused to Christ himself, should not. they should have researched why nuns wear veils. it is not just as a mark of distinctive dress. then they would see that those reasons equally apply to CVs.

 

I believe it's for just that reason - they don't want Consecrated Virgins being confused for nuns.  Some nuns are CVs but secular CVs are not nuns and the laity is discouraged from wearing clothing that is reserved for religious.  I agree with that because I personally know someone who recently left a religious order only to start wearing a veil, jumper, and cross and is having people call her "Sister" even though she is not a religious.  It's very confusing and improper. 

Edited June 21, 2014 by MaterMisericordiae

[AccountDeleted]

I wasn't going to buy into this thread because I certainly don't want to debate anything in VS - and I also think this is a very personal issue that depends on a variety of factors. There is really no way that this topic can be resolved (certainly not on an Internet forum) but I can certainly have an opinion - and being me, I do, so I will post this despite my reservations. ('What was I thinking?')
 
First, Oremus1, you are mixing up a variety of issues here along with the veil one. You mention veiling and then start discussing charismatic Catholics, receiving Communion in the hand and female Eucharistic ministers, as if they are all just too horrible to bear and as if they all have something to do with veiling. It is a little like saying, 'If the USACV doesn't agree with my view on veiling, then they must all be [insert critical label here].'  Each one of these issues is a separate one, and even if we don't all agree on different practices of the Church, the ones you mention are all valid and licit, and therefore hardly serve as a support for your argument on veiling.
 
The article didn't scandalize me, nor did the Info Packet that is available on the USACV website - quite informative and sensible I felt. But your post did concern me, as it seems to focus almost obsessively on veiling as if this were an issue of such great importance that all Catholics should be concerned. 
 
Personally, I agree with MM - in our culture, veils indicate either a religious state, such as a nun, or another religion, such as a Muslim woman. CVs (according to the vocation info) are meant to live in the world as subtle witnesses.
 

The consecrated virgin does not wear habit or veil, nor use the title "Sister," nor write "OCV" after her name. She witnesses subtly, but publicly and powerfully, by her virginal life given exclusively to Jesus Christ. Consecrated virgins today wear their ring, but their comportment, modesty in dress, simplicity in lifestyle all betoken their living of the evangelical counsels. [from Archbishop Burke, Questions and Answers in "Preparation Process," USACV Information Packet, revised August 2009]

That being said, I don't really see how anyone apart from your Bishop can order you definitively NOT to wear a veil, especially in church. Peregrina made an excellent point about submitting our will to that of authority. So the authority for CVs is their Bishop - and concerns should probably be made to him.

 

I Googled eternity veils as you mentioned and saw some that were worn around the neck as scarves but could be pulled over the head as well. They seemed subtle and certainly no cause for anyone to become offended if they were used this way during Adoration and then used in a scarf like fashion after leaving the church. Even our Western culture can certainly handle people who wear headscarves (drive a convertible and everyone will expect you to! :) ). 

 

The USACV certainly offer guidelines for the vocation, but I didn't see anything there that actually forbid a CV from wearing a subtle headscarf. And as you point out, many lay women do just this. Unless you have CV tattooed on your forehead or wear a sign that proclaims your vocation, is there any reason why you shouldn't be taken for a laywoman yourself? I mean, isn't that the whole point- to blend in with everyone else? 

 

So perhaps I am missing something and don't understand what the great controversy is, but if you are a CV, then why not speak with your Bishop about your concerns? If you aren't a CV, then perhaps this distress is an indication that this is not the right vocation for you? Become a habit-wearing religious and then you can wear a veil all the time! (just a joke, a veil is no reason to choose a vocation).

 

A final suggestion ... maybe let it go for awhile and try to see beyond the externals. God doesn't judge by appearances, but by the heart. I am quite sure that St Peter isn't going to be judging every woman who makes it to the pearly gates by whether or not she wore a veil inside or outside of Church. :)