Review At Nlm Of New Book On Liturgy

[mortify ii]

If the people who are attached to the EF keep on talking about how current Church teaching contradicts that of the past and about how OF needs to be replaced by the Ef, of course people will want to stamp out the movement.  If the EF is associated with people who keep criticizing the pope and the Church, with people who are negative and judgmental, of course non-trads will see it as a magnet for trouble-makers and want to get rid of it.

 

There is no reason to make this into a competition or war.  Catholics who attend both forms of Mass are brothers and sisters in faith.  We are part of the same Church and we should be working to build up all of us.

 

The big bad trad boogeyman, better watch out! I just think your perspective is interesting considering the small minority that constitute the Traditional Catholics. And you seem to be under the impression that there is no hatred for tradition, no desire to undermine the EF other than to suppress radical traditionalism. I think that's an incredible view to hold, considering that there are many more Neo-modernists who detest what Catholicism was and must always be, and would rather create a new religion more harmonious with the world. 

[mortify ii]

This. You can't keep simultaneously saying that the forms are at odds and that somehow the church has strayed, and then say that the OF is valid and "fine."

 

That's not exactly my position but those are not mutually exclusive views. The Orthodox are schismatic heretics and yet their liturgies are valid. 

[Fidei Defensor]

The big bad trad boogeyman, better watch out! I just think your perspective is interesting considering the small minority that constitute the Traditional Catholics. And you seem to be under the impression that there is no hatred for tradition, no desire to undermine the EF other than to suppress radical traditionalism. I think that's an incredible view to hold, considering that there are many more Neo-modernists who detest what Catholicism was and must always be, and would rather create a new religion more harmonious with the world. 

I must confess that if I hold any disdain for "traditionalists," it is only for those who look to pit people against each other and don't give respect to every form of the liturgy. I have nothing against them, otherwise. I would love to see wider used of the EF. But I would also love to see unity and charity amongst all members of the Body of Christ.

[mortify ii]

I must confess that if I hold any disdain for "traditionalists," it is only for those who look to pit people against each other and don't give respect to every form of the liturgy. I have nothing against them, otherwise. I would love to see wider used of the EF. But I would also love to see unity and charity amongst all members of the Body of Christ.

 

I agree, more unity and charity is need, and mutual respect among Catholics

[Nihil Obstat]

I cannot claim that the OF is how I would have carried out the guidelines for reform set forth at Vatican II. But it is the Mass of the Church and it should be treated with respect, as should the people who are attached to that particular form.

I agree in general, although I do not find it disrespectful, at least not necessarily so if done in charity, to speak about ways in which the liturgical reform could have been better carried out, with greater continuity with regards to the traditional liturgy. It seems that many do not share that opinion.

[Perigrina]

The big bad trad boogeyman, better watch out! I just think your perspective is interesting considering the small minority that constitute the Traditional Catholics. And you seem to be under the impression that there is no hatred for tradition, no desire to undermine the EF other than to suppress radical traditionalism. I think that's an incredible view to hold, considering that there are many more Neo-modernists who detest what Catholicism was and must always be, and would rather create a new religion more harmonious with the world. 

 

There has always been division and opposition between orthodoxy and heterodoxy and so there ought to be.  But trads are not the only orthodox element in the Church.  There are plenty of orthodox Catholics who attend the OF and want to continue doing so and there is nothing wrong with that. And they are not going to hate tradition unless trads are completely obnoxious about it.  All the people who care about orthodoxy and are loyal to the Pope should be on the same side.  None of us want a new religion more harmonious with the world.   

[mortify ii]

There has always been division and opposition between orthodoxy and heterodoxy and so there ought to be.  But trads are not the only orthodox element in the Church.  There are plenty of orthodox Catholics who attend the OF and want to continue doing so and there is nothing wrong with that. And they are not going to hate tradition unless trads are completely obnoxious about it.  All the people who care about orthodoxy and are loyal to the Pope should be on the same side.  None of us want a new religion more harmonious with the world.   

 

I agree there are orthodox Catholics who attend the OF, no one is saying otherwise. 

[Perigrina]

I agree in general, although I do not find it disrespectful, at least not necessarily so if done in charity, to speak about ways in which the liturgical reform could have been better carried out, with greater continuity with regards to the traditional liturgy. It seems that many do not share that opinion.

 

I think it is more productive to focus on ways to improve the OF as it is practiced rather than on the problems in its creation. 

[mortify ii]

I think it is more productive to focus on ways to improve the OF as it is practiced rather than on the problems in its creation. 

 

It's interesting that you acknowledge there are problems with the OF. Personally, I'm just going to stick with the EF which carries no issues with its practice or creation.

[Perigrina]

I agree there are orthodox Catholics who attend the OF, no one is saying otherwise. 

 

Their existence is not in question.  The point I am making is that the way you talk about the OF is likely to alienate these people.

[Perigrina]

It's interesting that you acknowledge there are problems with the OF. Personally, I'm just going to stick with the EF which carries no issues with its practice or creation.

 

There certainly are problems with the practice of the EF when this practice forms the basis for schismatic and canonically irregular groups.   

[mortify ii]

I feel alienated too, whenever someone criticizes the EF and tells me it needed to be changed

[Perigrina]

I feel alienated too, whenever someone criticizes the EF and tells me it needed to be changed

 

You'll get over it.  (Recognize the allusion?)

[mortify ii]

You'll get over it.  (Recognize the allusion?)

 

Yea, wish someone told the fathers of the Second Vatican Council not to alienate people who are attached to the Roman liturgy

[Nihil Obstat]

Double.

Edited June 20, 2014 by Nihil Obstat