fides' Jack Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Assuming I know the purpose of the customers? This entire scenario is ridic. Let them eat cake! The scenario is not ridiculous. When you're shopping for a wedding cake, you don't just go and order it. The most likely scenario is that the bakery is going to have a lot of information about the wedding. Most of the time it will be delivered. They're certainly going to know the names of the people getting married. And knowing such details, I'm sure many would consider it material cooperation to sell them a cake for such an event. Secular marriage and sacramental marriage are not entirely independent. You can't even apply for an annulment unless you first get divorced. Some here should go look up why that is. The same moral prescriptions should therefore apply to both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I said cooperation. I am not cooperating in their sins, Im selling them cake. I guess the material cooperation bit was already covered... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 For someone who throws around the word "hate" a lot I'm not sure you understand what it means. You do know that ordering a wedding cake is typically more involved than just walking into a store and ringing it up at the register. There's usually a little more planning and detail involved in which people share their intents and purposes for acquiring said delicious pastries and baked goods. It's not a matter of setting up a checklist and judging people on personal sins. If some guy who jerks off a lot wants to walk into my store to buy a cake I'm not gonna go all FBI third degree on him, but if he's some freak who wants me to make a special custom cake to have sex with, we're entering another territory aren't we? I know it's a ludicrous example. Here's a different one. The head of your friendly neighborhood NAMBLA chapter walks in and wants a doughnut, you charge him a couple bucks and part ways. Next week he comes in and wants you to bake a cake and decorate it for a NAMBLA anniversary party. You know gotta celebrate the organization for surviving some thirty odd years. Can't you see a difference in the scenarios? It looks like someone covered the whole 'more details' aspect, too. I'm too late into this... :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perigrina Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 Im sorry but I really cant take it seriously. I see nothing wrong with selling people cake. Perhaps you did not read the link I gave earlier that explains the Catholic concept of cooperation with evil. http://www.ewtn.com/library/THEOLOGY/COOPRTN.htm At any rate, even if you see nothing wrong with it, many other Catholics do see something wrong with it. Catholics who act on this religious conviction are subject to legal action for doing so. If cake is such a trivial thing that it does not matter if one sells it, why does it matter so much when people will not sell it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 Should a Catholic be compelled to provide goods or services for, just as another example, a Christmas party at an abortion clinic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 You can provide goods and services (such as cake) as long as the truth is written in some sort of icing color that contrasts to the rest of the icing. Examples include but are not limited to: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proletarian Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 I came to this site because I thought it might be a place to have reasonable discussions with like-minded people. After skimming through this thread, I realize that there is little hope of having reasonable discussions here. Has anyone that has commented in this thread even read the book? I have. Is anyone here capable of selecting a single point from the book to discuss -- using something other than a meme? Seventy-five percent of the comments in this thread basically say, "What a stupid thread. We've already talked about this." Really? Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas -- all of the great thinkers have had a consistent teaching on this subject going back thousands of years. But because we -- the generation who can't sit still and think for more than three minutes without looking at social media or Internet porn -- we can throw out this teaching in an instant? Anyone who wants to discuss the subject seriously is mocked? Pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perigrina Posted June 19, 2014 Author Share Posted June 19, 2014 I came to this site because I thought it might be a place to have reasonable discussions with like-minded people. After skimming through this thread, I realize that there is little hope of having reasonable discussions here. Has anyone that has commented in this thread even read the book? I have. Is anyone here capable of selecting a single point from the book to discuss -- using something other than a meme? Seventy-five percent of the comments in this thread basically say, "What a stupid thread. We've already talked about this." Really? Socrates, Plato, Aristotle, Augustine, Aquinas -- all of the great thinkers have had a consistent teaching on this subject going back thousands of years. But because we -- the generation who can't sit still and think for more than three minutes without looking at social media or Internet porn -- we can throw out this teaching in an instant? Anyone who wants to discuss the subject seriously is mocked? Pathetic. While many of the comments left something to be desired, these were written by relatively few people. The majority of posters are taking an orthodox Catholic position. Please tell me what you thought of the book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrossCuT Posted June 19, 2014 Share Posted June 19, 2014 The only thing I have gained from this thread so far is a strong craving for some moist, chocolate cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fides' Jack Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 You can provide goods and services (such as cake) as long as the truth is written in some sort of icing color that contrasts to the rest of the icing. Examples include but are not limited to: Cakewrecks.com is awesome, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Catholic Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 This thread exemplifies my biggest problem with Catholicism today. The majority of people here are human garbage cans who feel like they are in any kind of position to pass judgment against others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Semper Catholic Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 once I refused to carry a pot of meatballs to a planned parenthood party. that decision cost me $75,000. MONEY WELL SPENT. for the record, I refuse to bake cakes for/carry meatballs to: gay weddings stip clubs planned parenthood fundraisers black panther celebrations rallies of the communist party I also refuse to write "Happy Birthday Adolph Hitler" on anybody's birthday cake. Sorry, Nazis. .............. I like lists, if anyone here is picking that up. Sense this makes none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 Sense this makes none. if you're having trouble you can ask someone to read it for you. the military classifies that as a reasonable accommodation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice_nine Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 This thread exemplifies my biggest problem with Catholicism today. The majority of people here are human garbage cans who feel like they are in any kind of position to pass judgment against others. says the man who calls others "human garbage cans." so ironic, so hipster. Rock them skinny jeans Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norseman82 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 No cake for Osama! No cake for Saddam! NO SOUP FOR YOU!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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