New Book On Homosexual Behaviour

[superblue]

Disagree all you want but the name calling is rude and inappropriate.  Not only that, but to disagree with the church on issues like abortion is to cease to be Catholic.  Being Catholic means that you believe what the church teaches; if you don't, you're not Catholic.  It's really that simple.  I agree with certain beliefs of Protestant faiths but I don't believe them all which is why I'm not Protestant.

 

Catholicism is (like any other religion) a set of beliefs that you can agree with or disagree with.  It's not a buffet table where you pick and choose.  Church teaching on homosexuality is quite clear.  You are obviously free to dissent from that teaching but you can't remain Catholic while doing so.

 

 

if ya don't like the name calling don't go throwing labels on me it is also name calling and rude and inappropriate, and I never said I disagreed with the church on abortion, try comprehending what I am saying instead of assuming, and if you really think Catholics can not pick and choose what they do or do not agree with, then by your all holy statement alone, that puts every single Catholic in the democratic party out the gate, and anyone else who is catholic that may not agree on everything the church says and does, and I find that Christ would probably have a hard time agreeing with that statement,  and quoting what is bound is bound forgiven is forgiven doesn't fly either.

 

And just because I don't agree with everything the church says and does, doesn't mean I don't play by the rules, it is perfectly fine to not disagree and have an opinion, yet abide by the law of the land, I might not like driving 50 mph down a certain road, I can complain and raise all the cain I want to about it, but go labeling me " UNAmerican " or an " anarchist " because I hate driving 50 mph, as long as I am driving the speed limit who cares.

 

If you cant accept that, that is your problem, and again for the billionth time just because you think and others think that the Church teaching is clear, doesn't mean it is right, I don't know why that is sooo hard for people to swallow, im not dissenting from anything, that is your label once again you are trying to slap on me, I hope ya spend this much time walking around mass telling people they are doing something wrong as ya do here pointing out people are not allowed to have a different opinion.

Must be nice knowing you are the most holiest person here along with who ever walks around slapping labels on others around here too.

 

I'd say you are right in your labels, if I were out bringing homosexuals up to a priest to be married, but I aint,   and for the rest of us disagreeing heretics in the church I suppose that is what purgatory is for, we go there, while you enlightened ones go straight to heaven.

[Credo in Deum]

Wrong, all they have are guidelines in which to base their decisions, they did not all sit around at a table and God just popped down one day and instructed everyone on what to set into doctrine and on faith and morals, they didn't say a special prayer requesting an answer and then double checked with each other if they all got the same answer. They are nothing more than simple human beings , doing the best they can with the information they have, and just because they misuse the information given to rationalize things so that they don't feel obligated to debate it or discuss it any further, doesn't mean they are right.  At best the church has 50% of faith, morals, and doctrine correct. And the Church can not expect to be the leader in these regards when scandal after scandal pops up, to then just turn around and hypocritically drop to their knees and start boasting of oh how we are but mere mortals trying to do the Lords' will. Please forgive us, so when there's egg on the Church face, all of a sudden it is a " human church " but when anyone with half a brain questions the church its oh no no no  you are wrong, 2000 yrs, theology degrees, fancy hats, nice robes, doctrine doctrine doctrine.

 

Good grief when we look at our own Constitution and Bill of Rights, that is properly debated to no end, notes are taken, changes are made, wrongs are made right. To think the Church would fall into anarchy by admitting they have no clue why homosexuals are homosexual, more over to admit that they could be wrong about homosexuals in general, isn't going to send the four horsemen of the apocalypse down upon us.  It is very hypocritical of the Church to not be as harsh and critical towards civil marriage taking place out side of the Catholic Church, and then turn around and outcast and cry foul over homosexuals that marry and then at the exact same time allow homosexual men into the priesthood.

 

And then to think that only Clergy are the only ones worthy enough to form a council debate it, take note, vote , and make changes to the church is just as naners, but it is what it is, I don't have to like it I just gota play the game. Still doesn't make the Church 100% right on every little detail in the world just cause they say so, if it did, then I can claim the same for everything I say , just because I said it because I spent time and money studying the issue, but never really spoke to God directly, but believe me because I have an education.

 

 

Sounds like someone doesn't know the difference between impeccability and infallibility.   The two are not the same.  The Church can be infallible in doctrine but not have impeccable members.  Their actions do not void the truthfulness of Christ's teachings; no more than Judas' actions voided the truths which Christ gave to Him as an Apostle.   The Church has proven its Divine protection and guidance in this regard since it's doctrines have not changed even despite the countless sinful members found within it's ranks.  Those who are not with Christ are against Christ, and like drift wood they will leave the Church once they realize its not going anywhere.  Christ is the Way the Truth and the Life, and as His mystical body the Church is likewise the Way the Truth and the Life. 

 

Hopefully you change your stance for the sake of your soul. The Church has outlasted every man made institution since Christ founded it on St. Peter and it will continue to last with its unchanging doctrine long after you and I are gone, Superblue.

 

 

 

Huzza for cannon law and church doctrine, now lets wrap our blind folds on tightly and get in a straight line.

 

 

That's right my friend huzza for laws.  There are laws in mathematics, laws in science, laws in nature, and etc.  These laws do not keep someone from being free to do mathematics. They do not keep someone from being free to do science.  They keep people from doing these things incorrectly!  Laws keep us from error!  It is only logical and rational that there are laws in religion!  You think the blindfolded are the ones who follow laws?  Ha, the true sheep are the ones enslaved to their passions, so much so they abandon their intellects and wills over to them and discard reason at the front door and claim it as "progressive" and "free thought".   

[Kateri89]

if ya don't like the name calling don't go throwing labels on me it is also name calling and rude and inappropriate, and I never said I disagreed with the church on abortion, try comprehending what I am saying instead of assuming, and if you really think Catholics can not pick and choose what they do or do not agree with, then by your all holy statement alone, that puts every single Catholic in the democratic party out the gate, and anyone else who is catholic that may not agree on everything the church says and does, and I find that Christ would probably have a hard time agreeing with that statement, and quoting what is bound is bound forgiven is forgiven doesn't fly either.

And just because I don't agree with everything the church says and does, doesn't mean I don't play by the rules, it is perfectly fine to not disagree and have an opinion, yet abide by the law of the land, I might not like driving 50 mph down a certain road, I can complain and raise all the cain I want to about it, but go labeling me " UNAmerican " or an " anarchist " because I hate driving 50 mph, as long as I am driving the speed limit who cares.

If you cant accept that, that is your problem, and again for the billionth time just because you think and others think that the Church teaching is clear, doesn't mean it is right, I don't know why that is sooo hard for people to swallow, im not dissenting from anything, that is your label once again you are trying to slap on me, I hope ya spend this much time walking around mass telling people they are doing something wrong as ya do here pointing out people are not allowed to have a different opinion.
Must be nice knowing you are the most holiest person here along with who ever walks around slapping labels on others around here too.

I'd say you are right in your labels, if I were out bringing homosexuals up to a priest to be married, but I aint, and for the rest of us disagreeing heretics in the church I suppose that is what purgatory is for, we go there, while you enlightened ones go straight to heaven.

I'm not supposing I'm holier than so many people and I'm not going around pointing out everyone's mistakes. I'm a sinner and in need of God's mercy like anyone else. I'm simply responding to your post where you called someone a twit and a moron for their comment. I also never said you support abortion but you mentioned Catholics who vote for democratic, pro-abortion politicians and if abortion is a grave evil and someone votes for a candidate who supports it, then the voter is indirectly responsible. You can have differing opinions on things like gun control or how to eradicate poverty but certain church teachings are set in stone. If you think they're wrong, that's up to you but it's not in line with Catholicism.

[Kateri89]

It is perhaps worth specifying that dissenting Catholics are indeed sacramentally and canonically Catholics - they've been baptized and confirmed, and that can never be undone. They're just heretical, and hence not persisting in the faith of the Church.

 

You're right about that.  But it is worth noting that heresy is worthy of excommunication which doesn't change someone's Christian state yet keeps them from public worship or the sacraments.

[John Ryan]

I find all of these debates silly, because I am not confident that natural law is naturally anti-homosexual. So many people throw down natural law as a gauntlet and somehow think that is where the debate ends on human sexuality. If memory serves me, St. Aquinas once asked if walking on one's hands is sinful, because that is not their teleological purpose. St. Aquinas responds in the negative. I have never been convinced of the argument that in the case of the emission of semen, or the sex act in general, natural law demands that it always and everywhere be open to procreation. It appears to be a very narrow and simplistic understanding of natural law. I do not have to reject the idea of reason in nature (natural law) to come to this conclusion.

[KnightofChrist]

I find all of these debates silly, because I am not confident that natural law is naturally anti-homosexual. So many people throw down natural law as a gauntlet and somehow think that is where the debate ends on human sexuality. If memory serves me, St. Aquinas once asked if walking on one's hands is sinful, because that is not their teleological purpose. St. Aquinas responds in the negative. I have never been convinced of the argument that in the case of the emission of semen, or the sex act in general, natural law demands that it always and everywhere be open to procreation. It appears to be a very narrow and simplistic understanding of natural law. I do not have to reject the idea of reason in nature (natural law) to come to this conclusion.

 

That's phisy. The Church does not agree.

[Ice_nine]

 I do not have to reject the idea of reason in nature (natural law) to come to this conclusion.

 

Of course you don't . . .

 

Do you have any inkling of how supercilious your armchair philosophizing comes across? How's the weather up there?

[fides' Jack]

It is perhaps worth specifying that dissenting Catholics are indeed sacramentally and canonically Catholics - they've been baptized and confirmed, and that can never be undone. They're just heretical, and hence not persisting in the faith of the Church.

 

I've always wondered about the effects of apostasy - does it have any impact on the mark of baptism?

 

 

To the group:

 

Others have mentioned heresy - which is certainly being spouted by at least one person here.  Heresy (and also schism and apostasy) incurs an automatic excommunication, which separates one from the Church.  Yes, it's true that the person still retains the indelible mark on his soul from baptism, but excommunication brings more than simply the denial of sacraments; it also brings the denial of heaven when you die.

[John Ryan]

Of course you don't . . .

 

Do you have any inkling of how supercilious your armchair philosophizing comes across? How's the weather up there?

 

I reject the idea that what I wrote is armchair philosophizing. We are all sexual creatures and we each have a stake in our sexual lives.

[fides' Jack]

Of course you don't . . .

 

Do you have any inkling of how supercilious your armchair philosophizing comes across? How's the weather up there?

 

I admit, I had to look up "supercilious".  :)

[Lilllabettt]

lets make a list of all the people i hate/fear because I think their lifestyle choice is a sin and I don't think federal tax benefits should be one of the products of their lifestyle choice.

 

TYPES OF PEOPLE I FEAR/HATE

i'm a sempercatholicphobe, first of all. cuz fornication.

and contraceptors ...

so, most people.

but especially gays. all kinds of gays.

actually all folks who identify as LGBT ... actually LGBTQ ... the Q stands for questioning. or qwerty if you know the person real well and they have a sense of humor. But we all know gays dont have one of those, at least not one that they are aware of. So that last thing is pointless.

 .... and actually its LGBTQIA, anyway ...

if you don't know what the I and A are for go soak you're head, you're ignorant.

At least I know what I'm a hater of. god.

my current sexual orientation is: robert downey jr.

so it should be LGBTQIARDJ.

I'm a self-hater. I have nothing to fear but I fear myself.

I knew it!

 

 

 

*UPDATE*

 

Its not actually LGBTQIA .... its LGBTQIAP+

The p stands for "pansexual"

not sure what the + is for

Add them to the list, satan

Edited June 17, 2014 by Lilllabettt

[Not The Philosopher]

I've always wondered about the effects of apostasy - does it have any impact on the mark of baptism?

 

 

No. The sacramental character imparted by baptism, confirmation and holy orders is permanent. That is why these sacraments are never repeated for an individual.

 

The saving effects of baptism require revivification in the situation of mortal sin, but it isn't like the character gets replaced by a new one.

[fides' Jack]

So what, if any, effects other than latae sentenciae occur when a person declares apostasy, separate from when one is guilty of heresy?  I've always thought of apostasy as the formal, intentional break from the Catholic Church.

 

Then again, being a member of the Church can be understood in different ways.  For instance, the old saying, "Outside the Church there is no salvation" can be interpreted to mean that anyone who is guilty of mortal sin (including heresy, apostasy, not going to Mass on Sunday, voting for a pro-abortion politician, etc...) is outside the Catholic Church.  And I think that's a different sense than how many people view themselves, as in, once baptized, always in the Church, even though they may be separated from sanctifying grace by sin.

 

So, one might understand "Catholic" to mean in a state of grace, and one might understand it to mean simply, "baptized".

 

I think both meanings have been put forth in this thread.

[Socrates]

Save your money and read something from the American Family Association or Focus on the Famly. They probably spew the same stuff for free. Same old. This snippet shows that some religious people, who claim to know the answers, still don't understand much of anything. 

 

Actually, Christ's Church has been teaching that homosexual activity is sinful and disordered for many centuries before AFA or Focus on the Family were ever founded.  You can read those teachings in the Catechism.

 

Trying to dismiss the Church's constant moral teachings by association with the American political right is a popular tactic among "Catholic" progressives, but remains a dishonest diversion.

 

Of course, you can also save money and get the same stuff for free by reading this document by Cardinal Ratzinger as Prefect of the Congregation for the Defense of the Faith under Pope St. John Paul II.  (Short summary for those with reading difficulties: yes, the Church firmly opposes legal "gay marriage" and "civil unions.")

 

And, yes, Bennie, I know you'll immediately dismiss it, but it's just for fun and the benefit of those actually interested in what the Church teaches.

 

 

LGBT issues advanced after the general public moved on from the church. Church going is declining, even in the US. If you read this guy he seems to think its all about the homosexuals. He missed the ball, and probably always will. 

 

 

Actually, you missed the ball on what he was saying, though I doubt you have any desire to understand.

[Socrates]

Catholicism is (like any other religion) a set of beliefs that you can agree with or disagree with.  It's not a buffet table where you pick and choose.  Church teaching on homosexuality is quite clear.  You are obviously free to dissent from that teaching but you can't remain Catholic while doing so.

 

THIS.

 

 

The Church isn't simply a social club, but involves adherence to a defined set of beliefs - those teachings of the Catholic Church on matters of Faith and Morals.

 

As Catholics, we believe that Jesus Christ Himself gave St. Peter the Keys to the Kingdom, and gave His Church the authority to hand down infallibly the theological and moral truths of the faith.

 

If you don't believe this claim of the Church, then the Catholic Church is a massive sham and fraud, and a blasphemous one at that.

If that is what you believe about the Catholic Church, then there is absolutely no reason to want to identify with it by calling oneself "Catholic."

 

Protestants and atheists are at least honest in their rejection of the Church.