Ted Bundy's Final Interview

[PhuturePriest]

Agreed, but that's not the issue here.  Nobody is looking for revenge.  That's another issue altogether.

 

I'm not arguing for whether or not the death penalty was acceptable in this case, I'm just saying that your statement, that it serves no purpose, is incorrect.  It does/did serve a purpose.  Whether or not that purpose was moral, or even successful, is beside the point.

 

Allow me to revise my statement:

 

The death penalty serves no gallant purpose nor commendable cause. It is, at best, done to appease family and society seeking revenge upon the offender, and accomplishes nothing but continued unjust murder and the nurturing of a vengeful society.

 

Edited June 18, 2014 by FuturePriest387

[Ice_nine]

HCF dropping knowledge on you alls.

 

I was fooled the first time I watched this interview some years ago, before I learned a bit more about psychopathology. I think it would make us a little more comfortable if we were able to ascribe a person's sociopathic behavior to a cause or multiple causes because it's too unsettling to consider that some people are just tapped, they just are for no discernible reason.

 

Of course porn is bad, violent porn is worse, but the effects of pornography tend to manifest themselves in more subtle ways. I agree with those who say porn is likely a symptom and not a cause.

 

But I am not God and I make no judgments on his soul. Can't say I'd be shocked if his interview was a crock of bull poo tho.

[Ice_nine]

Allow me to revise my statement:

 

The death penalty serves no gallant purpose nor commendable cause. It is, at best, done to appease family and society seeking revenge upon the offender, and accomplishes nothing but continued unjust murder and the nurturing of a vengeful society.

 

Not to turn this thread into a death penalty debate, but the Church has supported use of the death penalty for centuries and I don't think it can be dismissed so easily. I agree with Catherine M in that it is implemented very poorly in our country, however I don't think it's very consistent for a Catholic to be against the death penalty in theory. In practice that's a different story.

 

This is a topic I've shifted on quite a bit. Used to be strongly opposed. Was very emotionally invested and entrenched in my position.

[BarbTherese]

I must admit that when TB was executed my response was relief that he would never find himself in society again as some worrying criminals can do, some of whom here in Australia committed serious crimes once more after that release into the community..  Do I agree with the death penalty? No.  I think that life in prison for serious crimes, should mean life in prison.  Not release after a period of 'good behaviour' in prison and an earlier release than the sentence passed - a sentence usually worded something like, "Life in prison with parole [for good behaviour] after 20 years".  I had a conversation with a Catholic priest prison chaplain years ago about being conned by those in prison.  He replied that he had been a prison chaplain for 20 years and he never knew if they were telling the truth or not still.  That life in prison is a life getting by on one's wits and those 'wits' are 'perfected' by the experience.  It seems that one of the primary focuses in prison can be going under the radar by all available means in order to hopefully earn 'good behaviour' and early release.

 

Were we to have a referendum for against the death penalty, I would vote against capital punishment.

 A long article from a reliable Catholic website, but worth a read: "Catholicism and Capital Punishment" - http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0461.html

 

I think you will find that TB's early years were not normal nor healthy with a bit of research. rather than relying on what TB said in that final interview alone.

[CatherineM]

Not to turn this thread into a death penalty debate, but the Church has supported use of the death penalty for centuries and I don't think it can be dismissed so easily. I agree with Catherine M in that it is implemented very poorly in our country, however I don't think it's very consistent for a Catholic to be against the death penalty in theory. In practice that's a different story.

This is a topic I've shifted on quite a bit. Used to be strongly opposed. Was very emotionally invested and entrenched in my position.

The Church feels so strongly that it is no longer necessary, especially in the first world, that the section in the Catechism dealing with it was beefed up. That was the only section that has so far been amended.

[Perigrina]

The Church feels so strongly that it is no longer necessary, especially in the first world, that the section in the Catechism dealing with it was beefed up. That was the only section that has so far been amended.

 

The section on homosexuality was also amended.

[CatherineM]

The section on homosexuality was also amended.

I didn't know that. I'll have to look that one up.

[fides' Jack]

Allow me to revise my statement:

 

The death penalty serves no gallant purpose nor commendable cause. It is, at best, done to appease family and society seeking revenge upon the offender, and accomplishes nothing but continued unjust murder and the nurturing of a vengeful society.

 

Your opinion is noted.

[KnightofChrist]

The Church feels so strongly that it is no longer necessary, especially in the first world, that the section in the Catechism dealing with it was beefed up. That was the only section that has so far been amended.

 

The Church or John Paul II's Prudential Judgment, history will be the judge, I suppose. 

[fides' Jack]

Back to the main focus here...

 

Some are saying that people like Ted Bundy are born with some kind of condition which makes them that way.  I don't know if I can buy that.  Maybe.  We're all born in sin - could this be an extension of that?  

 

I also wonder if it could have something to do with demonic possession.  Those of you who have posted about the psychopathology of this, has the Church's stance on possession been taken into account?  Assuming that possession is a real phenomenon, and that the previously linked studies include cases of this (even when it wasn't recognized), what would be the likely outcome of those studies?

 

To ask another way, would those scientific studies be able to come up with a cause other than "he was born that way", if the true cause was that of demonic possession?  I'd be interested in your opinions as Catholic scientists.

[Perigrina]

I didn't know that. I'll have to look that one up.

 

Here is an article: http://www.secondspring.co.uk/articles/melina.htm

[HisChildForever]

Back to the main focus here...

 

Some are saying that people like Ted Bundy are born with some kind of condition which makes them that way.  I don't know if I can buy that.  Maybe.  We're all born in sin - could this be an extension of that?  

 

I also wonder if it could have something to do with demonic possession.  Those of you who have posted about the psychopathology of this, has the Church's stance on possession been taken into account?  Assuming that possession is a real phenomenon, and that the previously linked studies include cases of this (even when it wasn't recognized), what would be the likely outcome of those studies?

 

To ask another way, would those scientific studies be able to come up with a cause other than "he was born that way", if the true cause was that of demonic possession?  I'd be interested in your opinions as Catholic scientists.

 

The neurobiological studies have recognized that while there is a noted neurological difference between psychopaths and non-psychopaths the cause for this is yet undefined. I have a hard time introducing Catholic thought to the topic because, well, it's natural to assume psychopaths are demonically possessed because it's just so difficult to wrap one's mind around the concept that psychopaths are not insane (clinically speaking). It's much more "comforting" to think that a demon is driving the behavior as opposed to the person's own sick pleasures (for no discernible reason other than pleasure). I will say that a psychopath would be more open to the demonic, but that the demonic is not the cause or catalyst--unless you want to argue that the warped nature of the psychopath is due to original sin. That would be different than saying that a demon is possessing a perfectly "regular" human.

[mortify ii]

The neurobiological studies have recognized that while there is a noted neurological difference between psychopaths and non-psychopaths the cause for this is yet undefined. I have a hard time introducing Catholic thought to the topic because, well, it's natural to assume psychopaths are demonically possessed because it's just so difficult to wrap one's mind around the concept that psychopaths are not insane (clinically speaking). It's much more "comforting" to think that a demon is driving the behavior as opposed to the person's own sick pleasures (for no discernible reason other than pleasure). I will say that a psychopath would be more open to the demonic, but that the demonic is not the cause or catalyst--unless you want to argue that the warped nature of the psychopath is due to original sin. That would be different than saying that a demon is possessing a perfectly "regular" human.

 

I'm not sure it has to be something very mysterious, some people will choose evil for one reason or another, there need not be some underlying deterministic force that makes the person act in an otherwise bound way. In other words, the will remains free despite genetic or environmental factors, what was interesting about Bundy was that at least the environmental factors we would typically expect simply were no there. 

[HisChildForever]

I'm not sure it has to be something very mysterious, some people will choose evil for one reason or another, there need not be some underlying deterministic force that makes the person act in an otherwise bound way. In other words, the will remains free despite genetic or environmental factors, what was interesting about Bundy was that at least the environmental factors we would typically expect simply were no there. 

 

Oh right, there certainly is free will. But biological and environmental factors can make it harder--or easier--on a person to do what's right. Psychopathy is a weird mixture of fascinating and disturbing, especially when it comes to men like Ted Bundy and Jeffrey Dahmer. Psychopaths definitely have an evolutionary abnormality, for lack of better terminology.

[HisChildForever]

It figures that I'm on vacation but still engaged in work-like discussions LOL.