A Thirst For Deeper Prayer Versus A Vocation To Contemplative Life

[Catherine Therese]

life intervenes - work that I have to get done and for which I need the internet. 

 

Thats exactly right - life DOES intervene, and always will in lay life. 

 

I think this is where we need to let ourselves off the hook, and avoid falling into the trap of scruples. If you have work that needs to be doing and the internet is required, then fidelity to the duties of your present state in life demands that you spend time on the internet. This is not just SURFING the net, or procrastinating on Phatmass... this is genuinely doing your work for which the internet is a necessary tool. 

 

Its a very different thing than if you were giving in to an internet addiction to general web-surfing or reading C-grade Huffington Post articles. :)

 

As for prayer material on the net... it is true that there is a wealth of GOOD stuff that can be obtained from the net. But think about what happens when you eat too much chocolate. A little bit of dark chocolate is good for you - full of anti-oxidants plus a nice little sugar boost, plus it just tastes SO GOOD... but what is good in small, moderate quantities is NOT good in excess. So it is well to be on one's guard even when seeking supplementary prayer material online, lest you find all your time seeking it and never get around to praying with it! 

This might not be what you're doing... these are just thoughts based on my own experiences of falling down and getting up again in this department. 

[marigold]

Ok, here goes day one of not everything needs the internet (NENI). I'm aiming at an hour before work, and have already used up most of it this morning writing emails, and an hour in the late afternoon during the kids' nap time. Please say a prayer!

[marigold]

Well, I'm right at the end of my second slot. The morning was fine, but this afternoon the to-do list started piling up in my head... And I knew there was probably an email from Father (and there was, I had a sneak peek after lunch!)... I took a little notepad with me and wrote down a few things that needed catching up on. But I've not done any of them this afternoon! I don't even know what I've done - just clicked around and read emails. Great...

Chalking it up as a learning curve and off to pray.

[marigold]

Not Everything Needs the Internet day two and it's been miserable. I'm writing this in my afternoon slot. Both I and the kids have been grumpy all day and the temptation to just forget about it by busying myself with something 'important' that needs doing - it's really persistent. And I hate that it's like this. I feel moody and twitchy/restless and generally not wanting to engage with anything. I have, however, put two and two together and realised that this is all coming up to the surface because it's the Apostles' Fast - the preparation before Sts. Peter and Paul on the 29th. It's only taken me this long! So even though it's not much fun right now, I'm thanking God that he's letting me deal with these things. You don't realise how strong the chains are until you try to break free...

[maximillion]

Strength, hugs and prayers for you Marigold - hang on in there.

[AnneLine]

 

Not Everything Needs the Internet day two and it's been miserable. I'm writing this in my afternoon slot. Both I and the kids have been grumpy all day and the temptation to just forget about it by busying myself with something 'important' that needs doing - it's really persistent. And I hate that it's like this. I feel moody and twitchy/restless and generally not wanting to engage with anything. I have, however, put two and two together and realised that this is all coming up to the surface because it's the Apostles' Fast - the preparation before Sts. Peter and Paul on the 29th. It's only taken me this long! So even though it's not much fun right now, I'm thanking God that he's letting me deal with these things. You don't realise how strong the chains are until you try to break free...

 

 

I'm out of props, Marigold (what a pain that is!) but you have our loving prayers and empathy.

 

You may find after your initial 'induction fast' that you need to adjust the amounts a bit (being a secular may REQUIRE a little more internet access in this day and age....) but ONLY after you have gotten the 'I GOTTA HAVE MOOOOOOORE!" out of your system.   (The reason I say that is that sometimes just the amount of whiny children and all the secular noise we have to deal with... the spiritually rejuvenating and spiritually supportive areas of the internet and connecting with those who are supporting our vocation can be an important thing....)
 

I went through this with the internet games a few Lents ago... when I realized how MUCH I wanted to go play, I knew I needed the break.  And it actually went longer than Lent before I could get to the indifferent place I found I needed.   :paperbag:

 

It was only when it no longer had a hold on me that I realized I could set a timer for 20 minutes and then stop and that was that.  Game over.   If it starts creeping back up again... we'll be off the games for a chunk of time again.     :buddies2: Limited amounts of games and I are buddies again now.
 

Will be praying for you... for now and if you decide to talk to God about healthy amounts....

Edited June 26, 2014 by AnneLine

[Catherine Therese]

Wholehearted agreement.

 

DEFINITELY gotta break the chain, but once its broken, the purpose of the discipline in this regard is help you order your life in a way that is pleasing to God. That doesn't preclude a little bit of recreation time online, and that certainly doesn't preclude the required amount of time to complete what does need to be done. Its not about the rule itself. The rule just helps you to be available to Him, your family and others. Love and the law aren't opposed - Love IS the law. And you gotta love yourself too (in an ordered way, for God's sake.)

 

BTW, you might feel that your efforts so far aren't up to scratch, but I'm here to tell you that I think they're heroic efforts, truly. Super gutsy, and I reckon Our Lord must surely delight in you and these acts of love. Keep persevering...

 

... and thanks for showing me how!! 

[marigold]

Strength, hugs and prayers for you Marigold - hang on in there.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm out of props, Marigold (what a pain that is!) but you have our loving prayers and empathy.

 

You may find after your initial 'induction fast' that you need to adjust the amounts a bit (being a secular may REQUIRE a little more internet access in this day and age....) but ONLY after you have gotten the 'I GOTTA HAVE MOOOOOOORE!" out of your system.   (The reason I say that is that sometimes just the amount of whiny children and all the secular noise we have to deal with... the spiritually rejuvenating and spiritually supportive areas of the internet and connecting with those who are supporting our vocation can be an important thing....)
 

I went through this with the internet games a few Lents ago... when I realized how MUCH I wanted to go play, I knew I needed the break.  And it actually went longer than Lent before I could get to the indifferent place I found I needed.   :paperbag:

 

It was only when it no longer had a hold on me that I realized I could set a timer for 20 minutes and then stop and that was that.  Game over.   If it starts creeping back up again... we'll be off the games for a chunk of time again.     :buddies2: Limited amounts of games and I are buddies again now.
 

Will be praying for you... for now and if you decide to talk to God about healthy amounts....

 

 

 

Wholehearted agreement.

 

DEFINITELY gotta break the chain, but once its broken, the purpose of the discipline in this regard is help you order your life in a way that is pleasing to God. That doesn't preclude a little bit of recreation time online, and that certainly doesn't preclude the required amount of time to complete what does need to be done. Its not about the rule itself. The rule just helps you to be available to Him, your family and others. Love and the law aren't opposed - Love IS the law. And you gotta love yourself too (in an ordered way, for God's sake.)

 

BTW, you might feel that your efforts so far aren't up to scratch, but I'm here to tell you that I think they're heroic efforts, truly. Super gutsy, and I reckon Our Lord must surely delight in you and these acts of love. Keep persevering...

 

... and thanks for showing me how!! 

 

 

I am so grateful for your support guys. I was tearing up a bit as I read your responses. So, so good to know that others have dealt with similar things - which seem so trivial and tiny until you try to let go of them! - and especially that it's okay to need escape routes sometimes. AnneLine, that comment about the whiny kids and secular noise... :) I can be very hard on myself, with the best of intentions ('God will take care of me! He will be the only strength I need!'), but not really allowing myself to acknowledge that I'm sometimes in situations that would be demanding for anyone! 

 

CatherineTherese, 'love IS the law'. Thank you so much. I'll be thinking about that all day!

 

Feeling halfway okay this morning. I'm off work and it's my dad's birthday. He got out of hospital just in time for it! Going to write a couple of emails and log off.

 

:o)

[AnneLine]

A very happy birthday to your father!   

 

I was touched when you wrote, "I am so grateful for your support guys. I was tearing up a bit as I read your responses. So, so good to know that others have dealt with similar things - which seem so trivial and tiny until you try to let go of them! - and especially that it's okay to need escape routes sometimes. AnneLine, that comment about the whiny kids and secular noise...  :) I can be very hard on myself, with the best of intentions ('God will take care of me! He will be the only strength I need!'), but not really allowing myself to acknowledge that I'm sometimes in situations that would be demanding for anyone!"

 

Oh yes!!!!   And here's a bit more thought on the same issues... A few years ago Mr. AnneLine and I lived in an area of San Francisco that was well... one step above a slum.  We had a major road directly outside our bedroom windows, and a VERY busy Jehovah's Witness church literally behind our bed and under our bedroom windows.  They had meetings at 8AM (and fellowship on the street outside the windows!) literally 7 days a week!!!!!   And on the other side of the house, We had a horribly noisy dive bar literally 30 feet across the street from our living room.  It belched noise -- and drunken patrons! -- out its door literally from 11AM until 2 Am (and later, and yes this is illegal!) literally seven days a week, 52 weeks a year!   I had friends on the phone who would ask me to turn down the radio so they could hear me talk... and I had to tell them that it was coming from across the street and through a closed window!!!!  I sincerely hope you can't imagine... 

 

I thought I would go MAD.  And I was in graduate school, trying to write papers... and had the police on speed dial and probably called on average five times a week for noise and worse.  But we survived it...

 

HOWEVER.   I remember one Friday night, one of my fellow Seculars drove me home from our Secular Order meeting.  It was about ten at night, and, shall we say things were JUST STARTING to get really hopping in the bar... and out also out in the street.   The Secular who drove me home wanted to talk about something with me before I went up stairs...and we tried sitting in her car... but the noise and the craziness were just too much.  She looked at me, and simply said, "AnneLine, how do you stand it?"  And I said the first thing that came to my mind.... "Well... let's just say that the Seculars have penances the likes of which the friars and the cloistered nuns simply can't imagine."  And we both laughed and laughed... because it was -- and is -- SO TRUE!

 

I'm blessed to live in a much quieter place now... but there are still days when the noise and craziness of 'the world' gets to me.  I love my husband, but when he has the TV and internet blaring, and I have a pile of housework to do... and a ton of other obligations, having a quiet cloister and being able to just retire to a cell and do something like sewing sounds like truly a blissful existence.  But I also know that I tried that, and God made it very clear that life was not for me on a full-time basis.  And I remember that my vocation is different... not better, not worse, just different.  For reasons that God knows and I don't need to know... He wants me here, now, with the phones ringing, and the crazy schedule and the fifty billion noisy interruptions.  He has need of me here... it is here that I am trying to serve him well.  It may not be forever, but my choice is to do His will.   Whether you will be doing this for a short or a long time, it is here that He wants you.  

 

If hanging out on Phatmass, or having fun with a few other internet people and/or playing a few games or reading a secular novel lets me relax enough to serve God better... then that is a good use of those created things.  And I am grateful for His providence in letting me have access to them... He knows me so well....

 

It isn't trivial... noise and craziness can be big stuff!   It can be a true battleground for souls and a graduate degree in learning to simply take what we are given by God and others and make the best use of it we can.  And to love His Wisdom with every fiber of my being.  So pray for me as I pray for you.. .for all of you.   this business of being a secular contemplative is NOT as easy as one might think... but it is so worth it, so worth it....

 

(and now I will get off my soap box, read a book for a few minutes, pray night  prayer and head off to bed!   It is NOT true what the bar people used to say about me, "She never sleeps!"  Not true in the least!!!!)

 

 

Edited June 27, 2014 by AnneLine

[marigold]

What a story, AnneLine... It can feel like that here sometimes. We're in a relatively quiet part of east London, but what with nannying two kids under five, and the 'norm' of having friends scattered in all directions, a busy parish life in another direction, and family in yet another... So often I feel like I'm just surviving, pushing through the next activity by force of will, doing the minimum. That's not a Christian way to live; we do the maximum; if someone asks us to go one mile, we go two.

 

I know I'm my own harshest critic, but I am also thanking God for the tough things he started showing me during the Apostles' Fast. (Happy feast everybody, by the way!) I love him so much, and more every day. I thank him for the desire for deeper prayer, and for coming up against the brick wall of my little addictions and my own resistance to him. 

 

Now I will log off feeling relaxed and refreshed because I've spent time with like-minded people and written some thoughts down. God is good :) Enjoy a a hymn from some Romanian nuns:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UGpCP0KiZTs

 

Edited June 29, 2014 by marigold

[Immanuel]

Wonderful hymn, Marigold. Thanks for posting that. and happy feast day. viva San Pietro!

[BarbTherese]

Excellent post, Anneline!

[AccountDeleted]

I figure that I can't be the only person to have this problem, so I thought I'd make a thread about it here.

 

For the past couple of years I've been discerning with a secular institute. It's a slow process as there are no longer any members left in my home country, so I correspond with the formation team in France. (Soon I will be going to stay with the vocations co-ordinator in her home for a few days to meet people in person.) It would be slow anyway, as members of this institute don't make final promises until the age of thirty-five at the earliest, and I have eight years to go until that point. Right now everything else in my life is going terribly slowly too - my research feels stagnant, my language study seems to be going one step forward and two steps back, and I feel as though I'm treading water. Waiting for something else.

 

I am periodically assailed by a desire for very intense, deep prayer, and when this desire comes to me I end up browsing websites of monastic orders (instead of going to church, where I could actually pray). When this happens I wonder agitatedly, "What if?" and wonder if I shouldn't make an aspirancy just to see if I really am called to this life after all. I thought I wasn't. What if I am? Then I notice that this interest typically resurfaces whenever my life (including my prayer life) is heavy going and slow and stodgy, and I realise that it's probably just a desire for some novelty and variety - a break from a humdrum and often frustrating daily routine that is characterised mostly by uncertainty. (The uncertainty of research participants not replying, the lack of job security in academia, the list goes on!)

 

One thing I am sure of is that the urge to pray is real and solid, if nothing else. I need to find ways to help myself persevere and to respond whole-heartedly to this invitation to pray more whilst remaining anchored firmly in the present, rather than flitting from daydream to daydream about monastic life. I wanted to know if anybody else has had similar experiences with frustration and restlessness, and if so, what your thoughts and suggestions are.

 

 

Beatitude - this may be something that you will just have to work out yourself over time. We all go through times where we fell like we are treading water - that nothing is progressing in our life. In reality, these are possibly some of the most productive times of a person's life because, like the seed that is underground and unseen, things sometimes need to grow and develop before they can emerge into the light of day. The feelings that you describe about one step forward and two steps back happen in monastic life as well - one of the curses of monastic life is acedia, the noonday devil, when everything seems pointless or stagnant.

 

There is also a tendency in humans to keep their eye on the other side of the fence, where the grass looks greener. Nostalgia makes us long for past experiences, and imagination encourages a variety of possible futures. So being content where we are, and slowly working towards our goals can be difficult.

 

That doesn't mean that I am saying we shouldn't look back or forward, or that we shouldn't imagine possibilities. Only that we should try to be a little practical while we are doing so. What do I mean? Well, for example, the stillness and quiet of a monastery looks so enticing when we feel a desire to pray and come closer to God, and yet, life inside a monastery can be as crazy and busy as life outside and even on occasion - noisier! Hard to believe perhaps but it does depend on the individual community. 

 

So when we wonder if we are being called to contemplation or to monastic life, we need to be practical in terms of what we are actually seeking. If we are simply seeking peace and quiet to pray -- there are many ways to find this while living in the world - it might require some effort to work out where and how, but it is possible. Or are we seeking a particular lifestyle - that is, living with others who also want a life of contemplation and prayer. The monastic lifestyle however, isn't only contemplation and prayer, it also involves interaction with community, various types of work, and a surrender of one's ability to make many decisions independently. It is a give and take situation.

 

It took me awhile to work out for myself that prayer and contemplation alone weren't enough for me and that I 'needed' not only the support of a community, but also the opportunity to give back to others in a community. I have lived as a hermit on two occasions, once in a laura (a small community of hermits) but our interaction was very limited, and once as a solitary hermit in the Australian bush. The solitude and silence and prayer and contemplation were wonderful, but I still felt a loss of being 'in community'. In community, I do give up some freedoms - I can't just go off by myself and pray whenever I want to- there is a schedule and duties etc - but I also receive from the community - loving support, a sense of belonging and a hope that I am being of some value to them as well, even if I am just one more voice during the Divine Office. 

 

Maybe you need to find out more about community life in monasteries to find out if this way of life attracts you or not. Because, if it is just about finding time, solitude and silence for prayer, then maybe you are already on the right track and just need to take more advantage of the opportunities that are already available in your life. A retreat might be order?

[Catherine Therese]

Enjoy a a hymn from some Romanian nuns:

 

Thanks for posting this :)
 

Made me a little nostalgic for praying with my former community. Their music is nothing like it strictly on the level of musical style. But there is something about the PRAYER reality of a hymn well done, a shared character, a familiarity of sorts.  
 

Anyway. I enjoyed the beauty of the hymn and it really helped to lift my heart to the Lord as I listened. 

Edited June 30, 2014 by Catherine Therese

[marigold]

Isn't it lovely? It has the same effect on me, despite sounding nothing like my former community either! Have another:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IxLwI3xLrOs

 

Nunsense, thanks for directing this thread back to the OP - and beatitude, sorry for derailing it!