Nihil - Lets Talk Anime

[CrossCuT]

I think i have just the last episode left so I plan on watching it tonight and then I will mull over everything youve said! Thanks for recommending this one Nihil! 

[chrysostom]

When y'all are getting close to finishing the show, I'll go through this thread and multiquote all of my longer write-ups about how I interpret the themes.

 

I don't know when I'm going to be done (maybe 3 weeks) so if you want to go ahead and do the write-up but put it in spoiler tags that would great.

[Nihil Obstat]

All of my Madoka posts, plus CC's.

 

 

[spoiler]

Hey, we should talk about good female characters in anime!

 

 

Madoka Magica would be an extremely interesting show to analyze for feminist themes.

 

 

The magical girl genre is strange. The girls are typically ten to fourteen years old, at an age representative of budding sexuality. The normal convention of the genre is that these perfectly average girls suddenly have great power thrust upon them, which they either did not ask for or did not fully understand.
In a sense, the role of the magical girl is simply a representation of an awakening to the power of feminine sexuality, which in a very real way is a form of soft power which is every bit as powerful as, though typically contrasted with the hard power represented in masculine sexuality.
The magical girl's costumes are often rather sexual, sometimes even inappropriately so, but presented from the female perspective it usually goes unnoticed and unremarked. It represents that the girl herself and those around her do not understand her real power.
That power, the soft power of femininity. It is neither inherently good nor evil, but dangerous and frightening at times.

 

 

Perhaps all the more dangerous for its elusive nature.

 

 

Pay close attention to Kubey and the use of silhouettes and shadows. I thought it was a powerful motif. Also the contact motif, with reference to a 'deal with the devil'.

 

 

Yeah, I have always found dubs to be awkward. I like to watch a program as close as I can to the intention of the people who made it. For me a dub breaks that connection.

Madoka is very much a genre inversion and deconstruction. In a perfect world one might watch archetypical examples first, like Cardcaptor Sakura or Sailor Moon, but I think the themes are universal enough that it is accessible either way.

 

 

I have watched through episode 4 of Madoka! 

 

[spoiler] Im still not 100% sure what the grand plot is, but I have to say I was pretty shocked when Mami get her head bitten off...I felt like I was watching Attack on Titan for a second haha!

But I can see now what you were saying earlier about wanting to discuss feminist themes in regards to this show. Its (so far) encompassed completely by female roles...females who have a pretty cray task of killing the witches. One interesting thing is the contrast in the show with their school lessons. Some of the lessons are super gender specific in that the teacher tells the girls they need to find good men and be a good wife and what not. Im sure that was put in on purpose! 

 

I feel like so far they have been setting it up to be predictable in that the scary girl who they think is bad is actually the best one who is trying to do good and not presenting the Magical Girls duties in a sugary light. I guess Mami wasnt either, but she wanted them to be Magical Girls pretty badly...although not really saying why. Was it because she was lonely? Homura seems to want to prevent new magical girls because of something that hasnt been revealed to me yet. We shall see! [/spoiler]

 

 

[spoiler]

With regards to the gender specific lessons you are seeing, I believe that is a specific trope, i.e. a female teacher transitioning from young adult to middle aged, and who is highly insecure about herself, especially her romantic options. I have seen it a handful of times, but it was really highlighted in Toradora. Whether or not it relates to the rest of Madoka... I had not thought about it. Perhaps? If we look at the magical girl trope as a whole as being about a young girl transitioning from childhood through pubescence, then that teacher trope could be seen as being a bit of a window into the future for these girls.

I have a feeling that there are some pretty interesting themes to be discussed with regards to the magical girls, these young innocent girls, fighting "witches". The perception of a witch in fiction is typically a sort of old crone. Almost the opposite of an innocent young girl. Maybe a corruption of innocent femininity? The old crone type of witch is especially common in European literature, and I think they make that connection with the witch Walpurgis. That is coming up, but not really a spoiler. Kind of a subtle reference, but worth looking into.

Considering the concept of a witch being a corruption of femininity and innocence, definitely pay attention to the nature of witches as presented in the show. I cannot say more than that just yet.

[/spoiler]

 

 

I love how evil they manage to portray the witches. I mean, there is the kind of 'classic' evil that's all dark and morbid. But I think I used the term 'psychedelic-satanic' to describe the witches in Madoka. In a lot of ways, and especially in the context of this show, I thought it was even more effective. If we are looking at witches as being a kind of corruption of the magical girl's innocence, then the witch herself almost seems like a moral agent who has fallen so completely that they take a sort of sick pleasure in their pain and torment. I thought that Walpurgis, [spoiler]Sayaka's witch, [spoiler]and Madoka's witch[/spoiler][/spoiler] were the most effective of these.

Whenever I think about the witches, I always end up dwelling on the creepy looking lettering that seems to represent their names. Going again into European folklore, and Biblical themes as well, there is power in names. The witches names are represented in a sort of 'black speech', and I'm inclined to say that those names aren't even pronounceable by humans. But the fact that the names are 'displayed' is interesting. Do the magical girls actually see that runic script? Or is it kind of breaking the fourth wall, shown only to the viewers?

Interestingly enough, those witch letters have been deciphered by fans. I guess they are Germanic runes. So maybe my theory does not hold water. This witch, for instance, is Charlotte.

 

But in any case, what does it mean for these names to be displayed? Are the witches actually offering their names? If so, why? Because in most folklore a character will hide their true name so that nobody can use it to gain power over them. What kind of power dynamic is at play here?

Thinking about it in terms of a power dynamic, I am inclined to go back to what I was saying about the soft power of femininity. If a witch represents the corruption of a magical girl, then the witch is also the corruption of soft power and of femininity. Maybe the corruption in this sense is the feminine psyche rejecting the soft power which is proper to them, and instead pursuing a masculine hard power? In which case, perhaps in displaying their names, the witches demonstrate that even as they have come to revel and take pleasure in their complete corruption, on some level their very nature continues to reject the hard power that is not proper to themselves.

[/spoiler]

[CrossCuT]

Finished it! I was quite surprised by the ending. The core of tje plot reminded me of a few other movies like Time Machine, that new tok cruise movei and a few others; That sort of cyclical time trap thing.

Im currently on my tablet so its hard to type up a big response so ill do that later!


Ps I started watchijg sword art and I feel like a good summary so far is "the teleport stones never work when they are most needed."

[Not The Philosopher]

Relevant:

 

[CrossCuT]

I love how evil they manage to portray the witches. I mean, there is the kind of 'classic' evil that's all dark and morbid. But I think I used the term 'psychedelic-satanic' to describe the witches in Madoka. In a lot of ways, and especially in the context of this show, I thought it was even more effective. If we are looking at witches as being a kind of corruption of the magical girl's innocence, then the witch herself almost seems like a moral agent who has fallen so completely that they take a sort of sick pleasure in their pain and torment. I thought that Walpurgis, [spoiler]Sayaka's witch, [spoiler]and Madoka's witch[/spoiler][/spoiler] were the most effective of these.

Whenever I think about the witches, I always end up dwelling on the creepy looking lettering that seems to represent their names. Going again into European folklore, and Biblical themes as well, there is power in names. The witches names are represented in a sort of 'black speech', and I'm inclined to say that those names aren't even pronounceable by humans. But the fact that the names are 'displayed' is interesting. Do the magical girls actually see that runic script? Or is it kind of breaking the fourth wall, shown only to the viewers?

Interestingly enough, those witch letters have been deciphered by fans. I guess they are Germanic runes. So maybe my theory does not hold water. This witch, for instance, is Charlotte.

 

 

 

The witches were definitely interesting. The labyrinths almost reminded me of odd dreams I had as a kid that scared me. As an adult, they arent really that scary, but they have a weird sort of character about them. As far as the names go, I guess they didnt stick out to me too much. The show didnt seem to emphasize them at all imo but maybe Im not the person who notices those things as much. 

 

One of my favorite things about the show is that it kind of deceives you. The art is so sweet, the characters are all adorable females in tutus, and the main enemy who orchestrates it is this adorable little dog/cat. The whole show sort of paints the serious nature of their existence in a fluffy light. And despite the art and the characters, the seriousness was communicated to me very well. Towards the end there was a real sense of urgency where you wanted things to end well but you couldnt really think of a way that they would. 

 

Im trying to think of what some of the main themes were. I know you mentioned Nihil that you thought it was about innocence and the loss of that innocence. I can see that. But I think another obvious one is one that Kyubey presents. Do you think he is the forbidden fruit? "I can grant you any wish and then you become magical!" But little did they know that they were essentially accepting the fate of becoming a witch. Maybe witches are sin and death?

[Nihil Obstat]

The witches were definitely interesting. The labyrinths almost reminded me of odd dreams I had as a kid that scared me. As an adult, they arent really that scary, but they have a weird sort of character about them. As far as the names go, I guess they didnt stick out to me too much. The show didnt seem to emphasize them at all imo but maybe Im not the person who notices those things as much. 

 

One of my favorite things about the show is that it kind of deceives you. The art is so sweet, the characters are all adorable females in tutus, and the main enemy who orchestrates it is this adorable little dog/cat. The whole show sort of paints the serious nature of their existence in a fluffy light. And despite the art and the characters, the seriousness was communicated to me very well. Towards the end there was a real sense of urgency where you wanted things to end well but you couldnt really think of a way that they would. 

 

Im trying to think of what some of the main themes were. I know you mentioned Nihil that you thought it was about innocence and the loss of that innocence. I can see that. But I think another obvious one is one that Kyubey presents. Do you think he is the forbidden fruit? "I can grant you any wish and then you become magical!" But little did they know that they were essentially accepting the fate of becoming a witch. Maybe witches are sin and death?

I think you could look at Kyubey as representing, at least depending on how you are looking at it, as either the glamour of evil or alternately as the banality of evil. Perhaps both. Kyubey is such that nobody truly suspected just how evil he really was - not at first anyway. So he comes in all cute and sweet, and offering them essentially the world. Anything they want. Just as long as you "make a contract with me."  Sort of makes you think of the temptation in the desert.

[CrossCuT]

Yeah thats what he made me think of. 

 

Ive since watched all of SAO as well as the newest episodes and I agree with you in that i was very disappointed with how it developed. 

[Nihil Obstat]

I still have not tried the new season. But my friend tells me it is basically more of the same. Finished Black Bullet a while back, and now my wife and I are working though a couple older ones. Lovely Complex, which these days is looking practically retro, and then Sakurasou na Pet no Kanojo, which is a year or so old.

[chrysostom]

OK I finished Ep. 10 of Madoka.  What a perfect little episode.

[Selah]

I'm halfway through Fairy Tail and Natsume Yujinchou. Loving both of them.

[CrossCuT]

I should give Fairy Tail another chance. I only watched the first 4 episodes or so. 

[Selah]

I should give Fairy Tail another chance. I only watched the first 4 episodes or so. 

 

Yes indeed you should :)