Pope: Half-hearted Catholics Aren't Really Catholics At All

[Deus te Amat]

From: http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1402313.htm

 

Pope: Half-hearted Catholics aren't really Catholics at all

By Cindy Wooden
Catholic News Service

VATICAN CITY (CNS) -- Those who insist others pray and believe exactly like they do, those who have alternatives to every church teaching and benefactors who use the church as a cover for business connections may call themselves Catholics, but they have one foot out the door, Pope Francis said.

"Many people say they belong to the church," but in reality have "only one foot inside," the pope said June 5 at the morning Mass in the chapel of his residence.
 
(CNS/Paul Haring)
 

"For these people, the church is not home," but is a place they use as a rental property, he said, according to Vatican Radio.

Pope Francis reflected on the day's Gospel reading, John 17:20-26, and Jesus' prayer that there would be unity, not divisions and conflict, among his disciples. There are three groups of people who call themselves Catholic, but are not really, the pope said. Apologizing for making up words, he labeled the three groups: "uniformists," "alternativists" and "businessists."

The first group, he said, believe that everyone in the church should be just like them. "They are rigid! They do not have that freedom the Holy Spirit gives," and they confuse what Jesus preached with their "own doctrine of uniformity."

"Jesus never wanted the church to be so rigid," Pope Francis said. Such people "call themselves Catholics, but their rigid attitude distances them from the church."

The second group, those with alternative teachings and doctrines, "has a partial belonging to the church. These, too, have one foot outside the church," he said. "They rent the church," not recognizing that its teaching is based on the preaching of Jesus and the apostolic tradition.

Members of the third group "call themselves Christians but don't enter into the heart of the church," they use the church "for personal profit," the pope said. "We have all seen them in parish or diocesan communities and religious congregations; they are some of the benefactors of the church."

"They strut around proud of being benefactors, but in the end, under the table, make their deals," he said.

Pope Francis said the church is made up of people with a variety of differences and gifts, and if one wants to belong to it, he or she must be motivated by love and enter with "your whole heart."

Being open to the Spirit, who fosters harmony in diversity, he said, brings "docility," which is "the virtue that saves us" from entering the church half-heartedly.

END

 

 

Thoughts?

[marigold]

So it's not really 'half-hearted' Catholics so much as 'people with other agendas'...

 

I think it always gets tricky when we start trying to say who is a REAL such-and-such. I have no problem saying Vladimir Putin is an Orthodox Christian - he's a communicant member of the Church. It's a fact, not a judgment of his soul. Likewise, someone who has some 'alternative teachings', as it says in the article, is still Catholic up until the day he's excommunicated, and even then he's still an excommunicated Catholic.

 

Anyway we all have agendas other than Christ to some degree.

Edited June 6, 2014 by marigold

[Ash Wednesday]

More or less it sounds like a call for authenticity and sincerity. At least that's what I take from it. And it's a common challenge among people of different opinions and walks of life that identify themselves as Catholic.

[CrossCuT]

Bleh. This kind of stuff is what people salivate over. Now we will have Catholics strutting around with more of a reason to poo poo on everyone else. 

 

Although I fully admit to probably belong to his "alternativists" group. But its confusing...how do you separate alternativists and "freedom the Holy Spirit"?

[Nihil Obstat]

 

Although I fully admit to probably belong to his "alternativists" group. But its confusing...how do you separate alternativists and "freedom the Holy Spirit"?

You do not, because calling it "Freedom of the Holy Spirit" is misleading, Looking for "alternatives to Church teaching" is simply rebellion. Nothing more. Real openness to the Holy Ghost brings peace and freedom precisely in the full, unconditional acceptance of those things taught by the Church. As Catholics we can accept no less, not because we are rigid, but because we have charity. Through the virtue of charity we see that Christ established the Church for the salvation of the world, and therefore any rebellion from the Church risks one's salvation. As Catholics we desire everyone's salvation, so we do not remain silent.

[Lilllabettt]

its easy.

legitimate diversity.

if you deny legitimate diversity you are being rigid.

if you embrace illegitimate diversity you are being an "alternativist."

the Catholic universe is wide open and free.  99% of the time the Church says: here is the principle, go see yourself how it should be applied in your own situation. The list of items requiring a signature on the bottom line is tiny.

 

EVERYONE has preferences- some people would like more structure, more rules, more enforcement. some people would like more flexibility. A mature religious decision means reaching past personal whim.  

 

Lots of people never make the decision --- they go through the motions. And then there are the other people who just make the Church into whatever they personally want it to be. Basically found their own religion within the church -- with their intellect as god. Some of them are liberals and some conservatives but they are all navel gazers.

[CrossCuT]

Honestly, its all just noise imo. 

Too much worrying about the status of individuals within the church and not enough focus on helping the poor and the suffering.

[Nihil Obstat]

People who call themselves Catholic while rebelling against the Church are in need of help in many cases even more than the poor. A different sort of help, and one they think they do not need, but they need it nonetheless. To decline to help such people in the name of tolerance is a grave evil. It is about love, not rigidity.

[Perigrina]

I do not think the headline captures what Pope Francis was saying very well. These people are still Catholics but they are in the process of "distancing themselves from the Church".  He was describing three common ways that people endanger their relationship to the Church.  It is meant as a warning for the people who are doing those things, not for others to say "the pope says that so-and-so is not really Catholic.' 

 

As a trad, the most likely error for me to fall into is the first one he listed.  I have to be careful not to insist that everyone pray and worship the way that I find most meaningful. I have to accept the legitimate diversity (thanks for that phrase, Lillabet) that is allowed by the Church.

[Basilisa Marie]

Bleh. This kind of stuff is what people salivate over. Now we will have Catholics strutting around with more of a reason to poo poo on everyone else. 

 

Although I fully admit to probably belong to his "alternativists" group. But its confusing...how do you separate alternativists and "freedom the Holy Spirit"?

 

But that's exactly what he's talking about, what people shouldn't be doing. 

 

What he's saying is that he can see three distinct categories of people who are have problematic relationships with the Church. The first are the ones who follow the no true scotsman fallacy, who want everyone to be just like them and think that they're the "real" Catholics. The second are the ones who pick and choose which teachings to follow. I see a lot of social justice types falling into this category, because it's easier for them to lean to one side of the Church's economic teachings like preferential option for the poor, even leaning into some parts of liberation theology, trying to show people a Christian love but forgetting that ALL of the Church's teachings are important, including the difficult ones (you could even say people who are too free market capitalism could fall into this category as well). The third are a group that has been around for centuries, the ones who think that it's okay to lead a life of loose morality but they can basically buy their way into heaven with a nice donation at the end of their life. 

If we only think about the poor and suffering, we're no different than a social program or a charity. Without Christ, and the rest of the Church and her teachings, we're identical to a secular charity. We need to have the right balance, a Church that serves the poor, not a charity that mentions Jesus. 

Freedom of the Holy Spirit comes into play when you're talking about subjects that give us "legitimate diversity." We don't usually talk about these topics, because they aren't as hot-button of issues as the ones where people are dissenting from Church teaching. Things like certain spiritual practices and spiritualities are the easiest example of legitimate diversity (Jesuit spirituality vs Ignatian vs Franciscan vs Benedictine vs Dominican...).  Or even easier, people who prefer the Extraordinary Form vs people who prefer the Novus Ordo. Some areas of legitimate diversity come down to the local bishop making a call one way or the other for his diocese. In these cases, the lay people don't exercise the diversity, but the bishop does and we follow what he says (whether or not to use boys and girls as altar servers, whether or not to have both bread and wine at communion, etc). When done well, practicing legitimate diversity allows us to try out new ideas and ways of doing things, but it's checked by the guidance of the Church to make sure those new ways don't stray outside Church teaching. It becomes alternative and not legitimate diversity when you stray outside Church teaching, especially the principles like Lilllabettt mentioned. 

[CrossCuT]

If we only think about the poor and suffering, we're no different than a social program or a charity. Without Christ, and the rest of the Church and her teachings, we're identical to a secular charity. We need to have the right balance, a Church that serves the poor, not a charity that mentions Jesus. 

 

Im not at all suggesting that the Church turn solely into a Charity institution with a foggy remembrance of their connection to God. I am suggesting that we can do more...and indeed the Pope agrees. He has called out numerous times for social change that would lessen the burdens of the poor. He has criticized the current state of the US and said that we need to do something. Is he at fault for leaning too much to one side of these categories?

 

Im not suggesting that the Church in Rome needs to redefine anything to say "Help the poor MOAR"..the church already tells us to do this. Im more speaking on individual scales. That as Catholics its our obligation to help. Its our obligation to make positive social change that is in line with our faith. The only reason I spew this ish all the time on here is because of my faith. 

For quite some time people were obsessed about stopping the spread of the Gay Marriage disease across the states, but they didnt care about other Catholic issues. Are they at fault?

 

Or would you rather see people discuss/debate these inconsequential "legitimate diversities"? Is time better spent there?

Edited June 6, 2014 by CrossCuT

[PhuturePriest]

 

Honestly, its all just noise imo. 

Too much worrying about the status of individuals within the church and not enough focus on helping the poor and the suffering.

 

 

The Church has always taught and continues to teach that the poverty of the soul is more tragic than the poverty of the body.

[Credo in Deum]

From: http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1402313.htm

 

 

 

 

 

Thoughts?

 

Bravo Papa!

[KnightofChrist]

It's seems perhaps that the Pope's speech could be summarized in tl;dr form as.

 

No man can serve two masters. For either he will hate the one, and love the other: or he will sustain the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.

[Nihil Obstat]

It's seems perhaps that the Pope's speech could be summarized in tl;dr form as.

 

No man can serve two masters. For either he will hate the one, and love the other: or he will sustain the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.

I think that summarizes all of Catholic social teaching, actually. :hehe: