I Don't Want To Fight About Tradition

[Perigrina]

All of which returns to the problem at hand:

 

Are you going on that date with me or not?

 

FP, you are too young to date.  If you ask again, I will send you to your room.

[Credo in Deum]

Not to mention the scandal it would cause. 

[Luigi]

The (very old) Kingston Trio was well-known for this song. Somebody please paraphrase it to fit the Old Catholic, trad, Vatican II, neo-trad, post VII, liberal, Nuns On The Bus, SSPX, The Pope Isn't Catholic Enough current state of the Catholic church. I don't have time to do it myself.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8-BI89mb9A

[CrossCuT]

Pope Pius X condemned Modernism.

 

He doesnt know me

[PhuturePriest]

He doesnt know me

 

I don't see how that has any relevance on heresy.

[PhuturePriest]

FP, you are too young to date.  If you ask again, I will send you to your room.

 

I'll be eighteen in a few months.

[Perigrina]

When the new Mass was introduced in 1969 some people still wanted to do the old Mass.  Some people got permission to do it, but some people did it without permission.  The people who did it without permission tended to be highly critical of the Church, some going so far as to deny that the pope was actually the pope.  The best known group attached to the traditional Mass, the Society of St. Pius X (SSPX) started off with permission but later its founder was excommunicated for ordaining bishops without permission.

 

Because of this history, the traditional Mass became associated in many people's minds with disobedience and schism.  Even the traditionally inclined people who are obedient and loyal to the pope tend to come under suspicion.  Sometimes people have had bad personal experiences with trads that leave a lot of bad feeling.

 

This sort of bad feeling builds on itself.  When trads (even the ones who are obedient and loyal) keep on encountering hostility and suspicion, we are tempted to become bitter and angry.  The more of us who give in to that temptation, the more likely it is for others to have bad experiences with trads and the cycle continues.

 

There are specific issues that people fight about, but I think it is more about the feelings than the issues.  Trads tend to dislike certain practices in the new Mass such as receiving Communion standing or in the hand, and having female altar servers.  So I've seen people argue about those things in other forums.  I have not been here very long so I don't know if it is allowed here but there is a rule against criticizing the new Mass which would probably prevent it.  Anyhow, it is probably a good idea to avoid arguing about those things even if it is allowed.  Those arguments add to the bad feeling and there is already enough of that.

 

Bumping this so it does not get lost at the bottom of a page.  

[CrossCuT]

I don't see how that has any relevance on heresy.

Its ok

[CatherineM]

The only old school thing I've done lately is attend an exorcism two years ago.

[Perigrina]

The only old school thing I've done lately is attend an exorcism two years ago.

 

But was it the traditional rite of exorcism?   :)

[Credo in Deum]

Bumping this so it does not get lost at the bottom of a page.

To me being a traditionalist means being pro-preservation, and not anti-change. I think if others understood this they would be less inclined to view me in a suspicious way. I'm not against changes in the Liturgy, however, I am against the false spirit of "change for the sake of change." When changes are carried out in the spirit of eradication rather than preservation, then I see cause for concern. There have been times were I have been accused of being against the Holy Spirit because I do not see any reason to part with everything pre-Vatican II. This accusation always made me sad since it was in a way implying that the development of the liturgy before V2 was either not the result of the working of the Holy Spirit or that everything pre-Vatican 2 was a mistake by the Holy Spirit. Both conclusions I felt in my heart were and are unacceptable. So, I was called a traditionalist by other Catholics and just kind of decided to embrace the label. When asked why I hate change by fellow Catholics I simply respond that I do not hate change. The type of change I believe in is a type of change that has the beautiful ability of meeting the needs of our current age while at the same time preserving our Catholic heritage. Then I throw in a little quote from Papa Benedict XVI to drive the point home. ;)

"What earlier generations held as sacred remains sacred and great for us too." -Pope Benedict XVI Edited June 3, 2014 by Credo in Deum

[superblue]

 

There are specific issues that people fight about, but I think it is more about the feelings than the issues.  Trads tend to dislike certain practices in the new Mass such as receiving Communion standing or in the hand, and having female altar servers.  So I've seen people argue about those things in other forums.  I have not been here very long so I don't know if it is allowed here but there is a rule against criticizing the new Mass which would probably prevent it.  Anyhow, it is probably a good idea to avoid arguing about those things even if it is allowed.  Those arguments add to the bad feeling and there is already enough of that.

 

Perigrina ty for the detailed response, I have seen arguments on C.A.F and never asked why it was a big deal and now I know what SSPX means !  I clipped this piece you mentioned cause it is constantly bickered about on C.A.F and even on their radio station it has been brought up, the standing / and receiving of Communion in the hand , and it seems at least to me a worthless argument altogether, and I have been at mass recently where people not many but have kneeled for Communion, and it was a lil odd to see it but only because I rarely do, and I am like okay, the person went on their way everyone kept going like usual and the sky didn't fall down and God didn't send any lightening bolts to smite anyone...  It seems like people are more eager to argue over petty things just for the sake of hearing themselves rather than really taking issues with things that matter.  And I would have to say hardly anyone growing up now in the faith has any clue of these differences that you have explained.

 

And I am still seeing no real reason to get on a soap box and argue one way or the other, if what has been done in the past is not being repeated now that is.

[superblue]

All of which returns to the problem at hand:

 

Are you going on that date with me or not?

 

 

if you really wana go on a bro date I suppose so, you're paying though. and im not some floosie so don't try anything.

[mortify ii]

 

There are specific issues that people fight about, but I think it is more about the feelings than the issues.  Trads tend to dislike certain practices in the new Mass such as receiving Communion standing or in the hand, and having female altar servers.  So I've seen people argue about those things in other forums.  I have not been here very long so I don't know if it is allowed here but there is a rule against criticizing the new Mass which would probably prevent it.  Anyhow, it is probably a good idea to avoid arguing about those things even if it is allowed.  Those arguments add to the bad feeling and there is already enough of that.

 

I can't disagree with you more, this is not about feelings or some nostalgia about certain practices. The Roman Liturgy was set in stone forever by Quo Primum. 

[PhuturePriest]

if you really wana go on a bro date I suppose so, you're paying though. and im not some floosie so don't try anything.

 

I suggest we do paintball. Doesn't get much manlier than that.