Mass Should Be Reformed For The Modern Era

[Credo in Deum]

Most catholics are not going to be involved in mass as well as several hours of church related activities every week.  For most catholics (assuming they even go to mass regularly, since many do not), an hour is all they are putting in to church related activities.  What I'm saying is that it would be wise to try to make better use of that 1 hr than the church is right now.  Here is on possible version.  Communion would still take place, since that is the centerpiece of the celebration.  However, the hymns could be done away with and the gospel readings should be greatly shortened.  With all that time that's been freed up, a few people (selected in advance) could speak in front of the church about some moral problem/dilemma they are having.  The priest could offer guidance to the people and back up his statements using gospel teachings.  That would be so much more engaging and help people live more honorable and moral lives.  It would help people be a lot more connected and it would really promote Catholic solidarity.

 

There are 168 hours in a week.  God asks you to be present at the minimum 1 hour to pray the Mass. To give your devotion to Him.   Yet that's not enough.  We should cut this prayer time even shorter by filling it with group share time?

 

The fact that you can look at the Ordinary Form and think "more could be done away with" just completely boggles my mind.   Why even bother with communion if we do what you propose?  Surely at that point we would have gone completely from Christ centered worship to community centered worship.  At such a state we would surly have problems no sermon could ever fix. 

Edited June 1, 2014 by Credo in Deum

[HisChildForever]

Most catholics are not going to be involved in mass as well as several hours of church related activities every week.  For most catholics (assuming they even go to mass regularly, since many do not), an hour is all they are putting in to church related activities.  What I'm saying is that it would be wise to try to make better use of that 1 hr than the church is right now.  Here is on possible version.  Communion would still take place, since that is the centerpiece of the celebration.  However, the hymns could be done away with and the gospel readings should be greatly shortened.  With all that time that's been freed up, a few people (selected in advance) could speak in front of the church about some moral problem/dilemma they are having.  The priest could offer guidance to the people and back up his statements using gospel teachings.  That would be so much more engaging and help people live more honorable and moral lives.  It would help people be a lot more connected and it would really promote Catholic solidarity.

 

With the exception of Palm Sunday and Good Friday, the readings are not what I would call long! Anyway, Scripture cannot be cut out of the Mass. That's ludicrous. 

 

And I don't go to Mass to hear other people's problems. That's actually my profession. But be that as it may, this is dangerous because it can foster gossip. And who would be comfortable sharing what I assume to be a personal problem in front of a group of mostly strangers? Anyone with a moral problem or life problem can either make an appointment with their priest or seek counseling elsewhere.

[Lilllabettt]

yes, lets make Mass more social and full of interpersonal sharing. please!!!!

the modern world in its entirety is set up to serve the needs and wants of extroverts.

can't we let the introverts have something.

good grief. 

[PhuturePriest]

yes, lets make Mass more social and full of interpersonal sharing. please!!!!

the modern world in its entirety is set up to serve the needs and wants of extroverts.

can't we let the introverts have something.

good grief. 

 

This isn't even an extrovert vs. introvert thing, this is a "Dear Lord, this is the Sacrifice of the Mass, not a social gathering!" thing.

[PhuturePriest]

I do appreciate the goal, which is to get more people to Mass. It is noble and admirable. But the way you're proposing it is just catastrophically wrong and undermines the Mass itself. It's not something that can be changed. You can change the language, but you cannot change the Mass. It's not up to us, it's simply set in stone.

[HisChildForever]

I do appreciate the goal, which is to get more people to Mass. It is noble and admirable. But the way you're proposing it is just catastrophically wrong and undermines the Mass itself. It's not something that can be changed. You can change the language, but you cannot change the Mass. It's not up to us, it's simply set in stone.

 

Right. There are a number of great ways we can draw people to Mass without destroying the Mass...

 

1. Better catechism classes so when children become older, marry, and become parents, they can impart the fruits of their knowledge and faith to their children and thus their children will want to attend. We'll start to see young people high school age to twenties/thirties at Mass again.

2. Living out our faith, making others curious as to where we receive our hope.

3. Homilies that are more theologically rich. Not every parish has this.

4. More traditional or sacred hymns as opposed to the same recycled hymns and songs (I'm talking during the procession in/out, collection, and communion time).

 

Like St. JPII, I think Papa Francis is piquing people's interest in Catholicism. Always a plus!

[ithinkjesusiscool]

Whenever you walk into a Catholic Church for mass, the procedure is pretty similar: a few hymns are sung, there is a reading from the Gospel, people shake hands with one another, and they receive Holy Communion.  A lot of young people nowadays don't go to mass because they complain that it's boring and not relevant to their lives.  Honestly, I think the solution is that the Catholic Mass needs to be reformed for the modern era.  Instead of a systematic ritual, it needs to be much more interactive and should be more geared towards helping the parishioners present at the mass solve problems in their lives, have broader discussions about the challenges they face in the community and form social relations to help prop each other up.  Have there ever been talks of any such reforms within the church?

Do you want my opinion: celebrate Mass in a more traditional! Having people who don't want to attend Mass is no reason for celebrating Mass in a stupid way. It just calls for more traditional ways.

You can't just pick up the acoustic guitar and...that's no the way.

 

That sounds rather Protestant-y.   :popcorn2:

In fact, it does sound Protestant.

 

We have not recovered from the last time that people attempted to reform the Mass for the modern era.  There were a lot of problems and a lot of people lost their faith.  That is what I would expect if we tried it again.

Nowadays there seem to be a lot of confusion about the definition of Mass. Some people just forget the crucifixion and only talk about a meal.

[ithinkjesusiscool]

I do appreciate the goal, which is to get more people to Mass. It is noble and admirable. But the way you're proposing it is just catastrophically wrong and undermines the Mass itself. It's not something that can be changed. You can change the language, but you cannot change the Mass. It's not up to us, it's simply set in stone.

[Benedictus]

People can do social things, or join various Catholic societies, action groups or support groups at church as an aside from Mass. Many churches do this already: faith sharing, Fellowship, Bible study, home groups, coffee mornings, Legion of Mary, Youth groups etc. They can also set up whatever group thing they like anytime of the week for likeminded people!  it's a bit silly to think this needs to be fused, or repalce, the worship time. The church isn't a social service action centre or therapy group -  it's primarily a church set aside for God.

[Norseman82]

Maybe we should push for a wider and more universal use of the traditional form of the Mass. :proud: What a reform that would be.

 

Wasn't there a rumor floating around that Pope Emeritus Benedict's ultimate goal was to make the Ordinary form consistent with the Extraordinary form - maybe making it an EF in the vernacular, like one step in the transition from the 1962 missal to the 1970 missal (I believe that step was in 1967)?

[Norseman82]

Most catholics are not going to be involved in mass as well as several hours of church related activities every week.  For most catholics (assuming they even go to mass regularly, since many do not), an hour is all they are putting in to church related activities.  What I'm saying is that it would be wise to try to make better use of that 1 hr than the church is right now.  Here is on possible version.  Communion would still take place, since that is the centerpiece of the celebration.  However, the hymns could be done away with and the gospel readings should be greatly shortened.  With all that time that's been freed up, a few people (selected in advance) could speak in front of the church about some moral problem/dilemma they are having.  The priest could offer guidance to the people and back up his statements using gospel teachings.  That would be so much more engaging and help people live more honorable and moral lives.  It would help people be a lot more connected and it would really promote Catholic solidarity.

 

As others have said, most of the readings are short enough the way they are.  I think what you are seeking could be accomplished by having better, to the point homilies (like the one I heard yesterday).  Additionally, how many people are not going to Mass because of "lifestyle" issues?  I think our leaders and teachers should address these "lifestyle" issues head on, especially before young people "hit the real world" so as to "innoculate" them, and the homilies should be recognized as valuable tools to reinforce these teachings.  This can be done without changing the current Mass structure, whether it be EF or OF or if the OF becomes standardized along the lines of the EF. 

 

HCF's response hits the nail right on the head. 

[Credo in Deum]

Wasn't there a rumor floating around that Pope Emeritus Benedict's ultimate goal was to make the Ordinary form consistent with the Extraordinary form - maybe making it an EF in the vernacular, like one step in the transition from the 1962 missal to the 1970 missal (I believe that step was in 1967)?

 

I've heard that this was already attempted in the late 60's early 70's.  In any case one of the biggest problems I see is that the Ordinary Form is looked at as being the Vernacular Mass.  This is not what the council had in mind.  They still wanted Latin, Gregorian Chant, the Kyrie, etc present in the Ordinary Form.  These things were suppose to be give highest place, but they weren't.  The funny and ironic thing is the Tridentine Mass is still the closest Mass you will find which adheres to what V2 wanted, and not to just what V2 permitted. 

[polskieserce]

I'm curious what suggestions all of you have for getting people to come to mass and have a true connection with god on sunday.  Right now, with the exception of christmas and easter, you mostly see old people at mass.  How is educating young people going to solve the issue?

[Credo in Deum]

I'm curious what suggestions all of you have for getting people to come to mass and have a true connection with god on sunday.  Right now, with the exception of christmas and easter, you mostly see old people at mass.  How is educating young people going to solve the issue?

 

Young people are looking to sacrifice their life for something; as we all are. This is why the majority of young and also old will give their entire life over to sin if they cannot find God in religion.   What we need are more outward expressions of our beliefs. We need to stop building Churches which are lost in the crowd because they look like Key Banks and Gymnasiums.  We need to bring back the stained glass which depicted the mysteries of our Faith, like the 7 sacraments and the events in our Lords life.   We need to put the tabernacle in a visible and dignified location!  We need to give the language and music of the Church which have transcended time and formed countless saints it's pride of place.  We should bring back the altar railings and cloth, the paten, kneelers, and anything else which expresses that what we are witnessing and giving our time to is something and most importantly someone who is not part of this world!  We need to bring back as it were the bells and smells.  Furthermore we need more sermons and talks about the Supreme Sacrifice of the Mass, since this will resonate with our inward longing to sacrifice ourselves out of love for something greater than ourselves!  To know that our infinite capacity for happiness can only be satisfied by our Eternal God.   

 

We were made to love, honor, and serve God.  When our Liturgy reflects this, it will draw in not only the young, but the elderly as well.  Souls are starving for the Heavenly;  They thirst for God and He thirsts for them. 

Edited June 2, 2014 by Credo in Deum

[MIKolbe]

I'm curious what suggestions all of you have for getting people to come to mass and have a true connection with god on sunday.  Right now, with the exception of christmas and easter, you mostly see old people at mass.  How is educating young people going to solve the issue?

 

I guess I don't see the Mass as the 'ends', but more of the 'means' to a personal relationship with Christ.  I think the goal should be this.  I do not go to Mass because of some obligation, but because I love Him and wish to worship him.  I would venture to say most on this phorum are like this too.

 

I think we need to evangelize not only to our separated brethren, but also to those 'in our own flock'. 

 

Start a Bible Study

 

Outreach to the homeless or the sick

 

Start a prayer group

 

Reach out to others and share Christ.

 

I think if we do this, "Mass attendance" will increase.  As odd as this sounds, packing the pews is not the goal (though it is a wonderful thing).  Bringing and helping to bring people into a real, loving, and life changing relationship with Christ and his Church is (or should be) the goal.

 

Perhaps if we focus there, the rest will be added unto us.