Perigrina Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Hmmm. I think it's that you don't understand where most traditionalists are coming from when they go document diving. They are coming, most of them, from a restorationist or integralist point of view. It is really confusing when I think that someone is having a conversation with me and she is actually addressing the views of people who are not there. I have been participating in trad forums for several years. I have a pretty good idea of the range of views held among trads. Yes, some of them are really messed up. Some of them misuse quotes from Church documents. I have not, however, seen any misused quotes in this thread. Moreover, the overwhelming majority of posts that I have seen from trads on this forum since I have been here have perfectly reasonable. I am not sure why you want to talk about some bad trads who are out there somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 P, re-read the beginning of the thread. Nihil is one of the traditionalists I'm talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 1, 2014 Author Share Posted June 1, 2014 That is rather hurtful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perigrina Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 P, re-read the beginning of the thread. Nihil is one of the traditionalists I'm talking about. What a coincidence. He was one of the people I was talking about who is perfectly reasonable. I really do not see how you could have a problem with what he has written. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Come on Nihil. Maybe I've misunderstood you. Do you believe with the church in the importance of freedom of religion and the press, primacy of conscience, democracy and so forth? Or do you think Catholic teaching actually goes toward an official Catholic state where the throne and altar are entwined? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perigrina Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 Come on Nihil. Maybe I've misunderstood you. Do you believe with the church in the importance of freedom of religion and the press, primacy of conscience, democracy and so forth? Or do you think Catholic teaching actually goes toward an official Catholic state where the throne and altar are entwined? What a loaded question! You are identifying things as "believing with the Church" which the Church does not teach, at least not the way that you appear to understand them. Everything that Nihil wrote in this thread is consistent with recent Church teaching. The only questionable post he has made in this thread is the yawn smiley. That was not courteous. But you are portraying him as rebelling against Church authority and there is no evidence for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maggyie Posted June 1, 2014 Share Posted June 1, 2014 P, there's no question that what I wrote is current Catholic teaching. If someone believes differently they are not thinking with the Church. Someone who believes differently would not be a candidate to teach theology in an orthodox Catholic seminary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Since this doesn't seem to be removed yet, I'll point it out. For those who don't know, "synagogue of Satan" is a white supremacist, anti Semitic book by Andrew Carrington Hitchcock. Although the phrase is used in the book of Revelation, most people use it in the same breath with the Protocols of the Elders of Zion and the Illuminati etc. I am not familiar with the book you mentioned nor am I white supremacist. I was using the phrase as it appears in the Book of Revelation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 Not all feminists and homosexuals are out to get you I agree, which is why I prefaced those terms with the word "radical". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 P, there's no question that what I wrote is current Catholic teaching. If someone believes differently they are not thinking with the Church. Someone who believes differently would not be a candidate to teach theology in an orthodox Catholic seminary. Interesting. So is "orthodoxy" a shifting term? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canonistwannabe Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 I believe the current United States president and his fellow liberals are enemies of the Church. Many support abortion, gay marriage, and through Obama care force the church to provide contraceptives to employees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perigrina Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 P, there's no question that what I wrote is current Catholic teaching. If someone believes differently they are not thinking with the Church. Someone who believes differently would not be a candidate to teach theology in an orthodox Catholic seminary. You seem to think that the Church's teaching on religious freedom precludes a Catholic confessional state.That is simply wrong. Vatican II understood religious freedom in a way that "leaves untouched traditional Catholic doctrine on the moral duty of men and societies toward the true religion and toward the one Church of Christ". You do not seem to understand that the teaching on primacy of conscience assumes that Catholics form their conscience based on the Church's ability to authoritatively teach truth. There are some positive comments in recent teaching about freedom of the press when limited by moral order and the common good. I have no idea how you got the idea that the Church teaches the importance of democracy. You seem unable to support your opinions about what is entailed in current Church teaching. You just assert them and belittle people who are actually able to show Church documents in support of their views. You have not given any reason for anyone to believe your claims about thinking with the Church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 "If we do not have hierarchies, we are eventually unjust with everything.Even with what we were, or what we are." Don Colacho Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted June 2, 2014 Author Share Posted June 2, 2014 What a loaded question! You are identifying things as "believing with the Church" which the Church does not teach, at least not the way that you appear to understand them. Everything that Nihil wrote in this thread is consistent with recent Church teaching. The only questionable post he has made in this thread is the yawn smiley. That was not courteous. But you are portraying him as rebelling against Church authority and there is no evidence for that. You are right; the yawn was not very courteous. I apologize for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted June 2, 2014 Share Posted June 2, 2014 (edited) Hoping Maggie will retract her offensive suggestion that I was promoting some ridiculous piece of white supremacist literature... Edited June 2, 2014 by mortify ii Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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