Pope Kisses The Hand Of, Concelebrates Mass With Pro-homosexual Activi

[KnightofChrist]

He does, but in this particular instance we don't know anything about whether the pope did or did not say other things to this priest. He could have, and we would never know and likely never will. That he treated him with human respect doesn't mean he condones heresy.

 

I just wish that Pope Francis would show as much clarity as he shows charity. He has an over abundance of charity, and seems to lack clarity when it's needed just as much if not more than charity.

[Nihil Obstat]

John Paul II was pretty big on charity and mercy and whatnot, right?

 

 

I do not think many people here, except perhaps John Ryan, would argue that John Paul was being a big meanie by not kissing Ernesto Cardenal's hand and instead by reproaching him pastorally. He said to him "you must fix your affairs with the Church." Was there not great mercy, great concern, and great love in that reproach? Are Catholics across the world not well-instructed by that simple event? You must fix your affairs with the Church.

 

Like I said, I am not questioning the pope, much less condemning him. I am simply trying to think with the Church.

[Perigrina]

I trust his judgment. If a regular priest or bishop were to concelebrate mass with him, we could reasonably assume that the priest or bishop agreed with him. Not so with the pope. I think it's obvious that the pope isn't going to change Church teaching, so I see this as an act of charity, that the pope is seeing Christ in the errant priest, despite the priest's serious problems. The priest hasn't been formally excommunicated, and his faculties as a priest are intact. Even if the priest is in a state of mortal sin, he can still celebrate a valid mass. If the priest has friendly feelings toward the pope, there's a much better chance that his heart will soften. Obviously pounding the guy on the head with Truth hasn't gotten anywhere yet. Maybe showing him some kindness will help. 
 

 

I wish it were obvious that the pope isn't going to change Church teaching, but there has a been a non-stop media campaign to convince people otherwise.  There are a lot of people out there who believe that Pope Francis is going to change Church teaching.

 

(I do agree with you that the pope is not going to change Church teaching and we ought to interpret this incident in as favourable a way as possible.)  

[Perigrina]

As for the actually kissing of Father Foggia's hand and offering Mass with him I really don't know what to think other than to put this in the column of 'curious/confusing Pope Francis moments'. People saying he did this out of good will or those that say he did so out of ill will also just seem to be guessing. 

 

It has long been a Catholic principle that one assumes good will as much as possible.  Our duty in a case like this is to give the pope the benefit of the doubt and assume that he had a good reason, even if the action seems wrong and puzzling.

[Credo in Deum]

Right now I do not have any feelings about this meeting.  Life Site News admitted they did not get a reply back from the Vatican spokesman before their "press time", which means they don't have the full story.  It is also vague as to what time they asked for clarification and what time "press time" was.  IMO they didn't wait because they wanted to be the first ones out of the gate with this "shocking" news and look where that's gotten us.  Welcome to Speculation City, population 4,375.  I'm sure you will enjoy your stay. I'm just so darn sure of it. 

Edited May 28, 2014 by Credo in Deum

[CrossCuT]

Right now I do not have any feelings about this meeting.  Life Site News admitted they did not get a reply back from the Vatican spokesman before their "press time", which means they don't have the full story.  It is also vague as to what time they asked for clarification and what time "press time" was.  IMO they didn't wait because they wanted to be the first ones out of the gate with this "shocking" news and look where that's gotten us.  Welcome to Speculation City, population 4,375.  I'm sure you will enjoy your stay. I'm just so darn sure of it. 

 

They are doing what all the other media sources are doing. Shame shame. 

[Nihil Obstat]

So is this whole story a great, encouraging sign of mercy, or is it a vicious media smear campaign? It would be rather odd if it were both.

[Credo in Deum]

Only time will tell.  

 

http://youtu.be/Rgrof_fmXuk

 

Tune in next week!  Same PHat channel; same Phat time. 

Edited May 28, 2014 by Credo in Deum

[KnightofChrist]

Right now I do not have any feelings about this meeting. Life Site News admitted they did not get a reply back from the Vatican spokesman before their "press time", which means they don't have the full story. It is also vague as to what time they asked for clarification and what time "press time" was. IMO they didn't wait because they wanted to be the first ones out of the gate with this "shocking" news and look where that's gotten us. Welcome to Speculation City, population 4,375. I'm sure you will enjoy your stay. I'm just so darn sure of it.

Just for clarification:

The word "shocking" appears no where in the article.

The meeting took place on May 6th

Life News covered the story May 23rd, 17 days later, after various other news outlets, mostly European, reported on it the day of the meeting or a few days later.

With or without clarification from the Vatican the Pope's actions here speak loudly, and are newsworthy. Its big news when the Pope does things like this and it cannot just be ignored. This is specially true when other news outlets are covering the story.

I'm guessing LifeNews' "press time" is less than 18 days.

[Seven77]

Donatism: A heresy that, among other things, believed that the validity of a mass was somehow tied to the personal holiness of the priest celebrating it. 

 

Concelebrating mass with a priest known for activism for things in conflict with Church teaching isn't the safest thing to do. But the priest isn't excommunicated. The priest hasn't lost his faculties.  The priest is still a priest.  So what's left? Some very easy to fall into Donatist tendencies? I'm going to trust the pope's judgment on this one. The Holy Spirit obviously chose this man for a reason. I'm not going to presume to know what that reason is. 

 

 

I love you.

[Seven77]

Sorry but told ya so...

Time to stop with the excuses and start supporting the restoration of our Church.

 

And you are doing this how?

[Seven77]

I have yet to find another article reporting this...

[Credo in Deum]

Just for clarification:

The word "shocking" appears no where in the article.

The meeting took place on May 6th

Life News covered the story May 23rd, 17 days later, after various other news outlets, mostly European, reported on it the day of the meeting or a few days later.

With or without clarification from the Vatican the Pope's actions here speak loudly, and are newsworthy. Its big news when the Pope does things like this and it cannot just be ignored. This is specially true when other news outlets are covering the story.

I'm guessing LifeNews' "press time" is less than 18 days.

 

God bless you for the correction. 

 

Thank you. 

[KnightofChrist]

I have yet to find another article reporting this...

Here are some...

http://www.lesobservateurs.ch/2014/05/15/a-qui-le-pape-baise-la-main/

http://www.katholisches.info/2014/05/09/papst-kuesst-antiklerikalem-priester-die-hand-die-linke-welt-des-don-michele-de-paolis/

http://medias-presse.info/homosexualite-que-recherche-au-juste-le-pape/10390

[Seven77]

"So, after Mass, the Pope is deeply bowed Michele de Paolis, and he kissed her hands."

 

I'm sorry but that Google translation is deeply hilarious.

 

Edited May 29, 2014 by Seven77