Hello, Need Help In My Relationship With The Church

[bernadette d]

When I read the autobiographies of great saints I see very little on the subjects you mention.  They don't lament church teaching or the behavior of others.  They focus on their own behavior and their relationship with God through Christ.

 

If you want a strong faith, spirituality, and relationship with Jesus, then pray for and focus on those things.  It will be the path less followed, for sure, but it will be fruitful. 

 

Of course, if you want to whine about Church teaching or lament the (apparent) behavior of others like you are doing, you will have lots more company. 
 

 

My thoughts too.

[Dorian]

Thanks for all the replies!

 

Nihil Obstat, I see what you're saying but I think I'm more inclined to the studying part than the sitting back and relaxing part. Then the issue becomes how can I still in good conscience call myself a Catholic and receive communion when there are teachings with which I just can't agree, no matter how hard I try. 

 

Perigrina, could you tell me what changed your mind and helped you accept the Church's teaching? Was it just studying it more? I've studied Catholic theology at a tertiary level and I'm familiar with the Aristotelian underpinnings of natural law theory. Is there anything you studied which helped you understand and eventually accept the Church's sexual teaching? 

Hischildforever, I like that thing about becoming as little children. I should probably pray on that more. 

 

NotreDame, I do pray and focus on my relationship with Jesus. I don't think it's fair to judge me like that. At the end of the day the Church does teach that She is infallible and that Catholics owe the assent of their intellect to the magisterium, and if I disagree with Her on several issues then it doesn't show a great deal of integrity or love for the Church if that doesn't bother me. 

 

 

 

I suppose it's really easy to just accept some things on faith like transubstantiation because, at the end of the day, belief or non-belief in transubstantiation doesn't cause the kind of pain and suffering for individuals that the Church's teaching on divorce or homosexuality can. I guess that's why it's much harder to just 'sign on the dotted line' for me with beliefs like that.  I really would like to be able to conform but I'd be lying to myself and to the Church if I said it made sense to me or I thought it was true.

Edited May 26, 2014 by Dorian

[BarbTherese]

Hi Dorian

I am wondering if you are getting anything helpful out of the posts to date?

 

You are in my prayers...........Barb :)

 

[Perigrina]

Perigrina, could you tell me what changed your mind and helped you accept the Church's teaching? Was it just studying it more? I've studied Catholic theology at a tertiary level and I'm familiar with the Aristotelian underpinnings of natural law theory. Is there anything you studied which helped you understand and eventually accept the Church's sexual teaching?

 

What helped me the most was making a clearer distinction between the actual teaching of the Church and the practice of Catholics.  I was disturbed by the anger, hostility and lack of compassion often directed toward homosexual people.  I realized that my sense of wrongness was largely a reaction to that and it was interfering with my ability to think clearly about the teaching in itself.   I had to remind myself that this wrong attitude is neither taught nor implied by the Church.

 

I already had accepted the teaching on masturbation and contraception because, as a married woman, I could tell from my own experience that this teaching leads to integrity and wholeness.  So it had not been hard for me to accept that the Church's view of the human person and the nature of the sex act was fundamentally correct.  Since the teaching on homosexuality is derived from the same principles as other teachings which I did accept, things fell into place at that point.

 

I'm afraid that this is not likely to help you, since your problem is with all the teachings on sexual morality. Perhaps you could find something helpful in the works of Dr. Janet Smith: http://www.janetesmith.org/  She has a strong intellectual foundation to her work.

 

I can see that my explanation in my earlier post was not the right level for you.  You did not need the simplified version I presented there.  It is a good think I prayed for you or I would be completely useless. :unsure:

 

 

 

[Lilllabettt]

let me tell you what Cardinal Ratzinger taught me about this. Maybe you know this story, since he has referred to it numerous times over the years:

 

Once upon a time there was a German academic theologian (not Ratzinger) studying and writing during the first half of the 20th century. In these days, the Assumption of the Blessed Virgin Mary had not yet been dogmatically defined, and there was a great deal of debate in intellectual circles about whether it was in fact a truth of the faith. This particular German theologian was vehemently opposed to the idea. It offended his sense of reason on every level. Someone came to interview him on this subject, and over the course of several hours he laid out his case, one which he (the German theologian) felt was utterly convincing. At the end of their meeting, his interviewer asked him a final question: should the Church decide differently, and define this dogma, what will you do then? The German theologian sighed and replied: if the Church says I am wrong, then I am wrong.

 

After the definition in 1950, this particular theologian willingly gave his assent. He did not put so much stock in his own intellect to believe that it was always a sure compass of truth. He knew that the Church received divine aid in its mission that was far beyond any light he might receive. He had the humility to believe - if the Church says I am wrong, then I am wrong. I do not see how I am wrong. But I am wrong.

 

 

 

 

 

[Nihil Obstat]

 

Nihil Obstat, I see what you're saying but I think I'm more inclined to the studying part than the sitting back and relaxing part. Then the issue becomes how can I still in good conscience call myself a Catholic and receive communion when there are teachings with which I just can't agree, no matter how hard I try. 

 

 

I am like you, then. And if it were me in that position, I might be inclined to think that in this case, I am being asked to set aside my inclination to study the subject, and accept it first, then work to understand better later.

 

If I found that I simply could not accept some particular doctrine, no matter how much I studied, and I found also that this doctrine is pretty essential to calling myself a Catholic, then I would accept first, understand later. For smart people, the intellect can be a source of pride if one is not careful. So sometimes one is called to have the intellectual humility to simply accept.

[mortify ii]

I consider my former Islamic background a blessing in that it prepared me to focus on God. When I began to reconsider Christianity I was only concerned with finding the truth. Interestingly enough around that time I recall seeing an interview with the late Christopher Reeves who said he became a unitarian because it was important for him to join a community that was accepting of everyone. I found that to be an unfortunate statement and could not relate with it. If God gives a command our response as creatures is to obey, whether we understand or not. 

[AugustineA]

I consider my former Islamic background a blessing in that it prepared me to focus on God. When I began to reconsider Christianity I was only concerned with finding the truth. Interestingly enough around that time I recall seeing an interview with the late Christopher Reeves who said he became a unitarian because it was important for him to join a community that was accepting of everyone. I found that to be an unfortunate statement and could not relate with it. If God gives a command our response as creatures is to obey, whether we understand or not. 

 

Don't want to derail the thread, but I come from a Jewish background and studied Islam pretty intensively in uni. We should talk. I would enjoy hearing about your conversion. :) 

[LouisvilleFan]

Hello, 

 

I just signed up here and my first post is a bit heavy (sorry!)

 

 

Welcome! Might as well dive right in...

 

 

The first is the way the  Church gets so sucked into the culture wars. Sometime I feel like the Catholic circles I'm around reduce the Faith down to opposing gay marriage and abortion, but don't do anything for the homeless, asylum seekers, or the marginalised. I also hate the way that so many Catholics my age talk about "liberal" and "conservative" as if the Church is a political party. Don't get me wrong, I understand the Church's concern with these social issues (more so abortion than gay marriage) but to me there are things that are so many more important social issues and it feels like my generation of Catholics are just fixated on these two issues.

 

On this your spot on, and I think others replies earlier with the same sentiment. Catholicism isn't a political party, although just as they tried to fit Jesus into a political party, the same continues to be done in every age. The Catholic faith is called universal because it expresses all truth, and if all parties hold some truth, then we must acknowledge that truth wherever it is found with integrity.

 

 

 

The second is that I really struggle to accept a lot of the Church's sexual teaching. I can completely see Her reasoning behind stuff like saving sex for marriage and the sinfulness of pornography, but I can't for the life of me understand Her teaching on contraception, masturbation, or homosexuality (and i've been trying to for four years). I just don't see how the morality of the sexual act is contingent upon whether conception is possible or not. This is supposed to be a matter of 'natural law' accessible to reason alone and yet I've never heard an argument that is even remotely convincing in this regard. On homosexuality, well, I look at my gay friends and I just can't bring myself to view their loving and committed relationships as sinful. They're as committed, if not more so, than I ever have been in my heterosexual relationships. Catholicism requires me to tell them that they're better off single and alone for the rest of their life. I just can't do that.

 

Bishop Paprocki was in Cincinnati a couple months ago to speak on homosexuality. During the Q&A (always the best part of these talks), someone challenged him as why God could not bless the love between two people of the same sex. Paprocki responded, "He can."

 

Love, in the Catholic sense, pulls us out of ourselves and toward the other. In taking exception to same-sex sexual relationionships, we still recognize there is a sense of love between people who sacrifice of themselves for the other. If two men or two women seek God with a sincere heart, perhaps they find in each other the grace to lead a fulfilling and chaste life (if they are open to it, or willing to consider being open to it).
 

That's just one possibility to show that how God can provide by community and chastity. While religious life is an obvious example, there are many vocations for singles that God might call someone into instead of marriage. Third order religious include married and other laypeople, Catholic Charities, St. Vincent de Paul, or building up the life of a local parish... it may be something else, but there are many ways God might call a single Catholic to serve that will leave them far from alone.

 

I have to run, but for more food for thought that I've found helpful, here is an interesting article from The Atlantic that might be a worthwhile read:

http://www.theatlantic.com/sexes/archive/2013/05/im-gay-but-im-not-switching-to-a-church-that-supports-gay-marriage/276383/

 

Have you already read the letter on Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons?

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19861001_homosexual-persons_en.html

 

Peace of Christ,
Jason

[Seven77]

Just give everything the assent of faith, understanding comes later. You still might find some things difficult to understand at different points of your life. Welcome to the human race! Struggles are inevitable.  Sometimes, something that I have believed suddenly becomes  difficult or even kind of puzzling and scary. What has always helped me is to realize that Jesus walks beside me--in me through the life-giving Spirit that guides the Church into all Truth.  God is my Father and the Church is my Mother-- I am just a child who relies on my Father and my Mother for everything. Have you read Story of a Soul by St. Therese? It comes to mind now, I highly recommend it. Also, the writings of our recent Popes are very helpful.