Hello, Need Help In My Relationship With The Church

[Dorian]

Hello, 

 

I just signed up here and my first post is a bit heavy (sorry!)

 

I became a Catholic about four years ago, but this year my relationship with the Church has gone rapidly down hill. It has gotten to the point where I've been attending a Lutheran church for the last few months because I feel like there's no place for me in the Church anymore. At the same time I don't think I'll ever quite be an 'ex-Catholic'. I still feel that the Church is my mother - to some degree at least - and I'm thinking I should try to repair my relationship with her rather than throw in the towel. I guess that's why I've signed up here.

 

I guess my problems fall into two main categories

The first is the way the  Church gets so sucked into the culture wars. Sometime I feel like the Catholic circles I'm around reduce the Faith down to opposing gay marriage and abortion, but don't do anything for the homeless, asylum seekers, or the marginalised. I also hate the way that so many Catholics my age talk about "liberal" and "conservative" as if the Church is a political party. Don't get me wrong, I understand the Church's concern with these social issues (more so abortion than gay marriage) but to me there are things that are so many more important social issues and it feels like my generation of Catholics are just fixated on these two issues.

 

The second is that I really struggle to accept a lot of the Church's sexual teaching. I can completely see Her reasoning behind stuff like saving sex for marriage and the sinfulness of pornography, but I can't for the life of me understand Her teaching on contraception, masturbation, or homosexuality (and i've been trying to for four years). I just don't see how the morality of the sexual act is contingent upon whether conception is possible or not. This is supposed to be a matter of 'natural law' accessible to reason alone and yet I've never heard an argument that is even remotely convincing in this regard. On homosexuality, well, I look at my gay friends and I just can't bring myself to view their loving and committed relationships as sinful. They're as committed, if not more so, than I ever have been in my heterosexual relationships. Catholicism requires me to tell them that they're better off single and alone for the rest of their life. I just can't do that.

Okay, sorry for venting. I really needed to do that. If you have any advice or words of encouragement I'd love to hear them, but most of all please pray for me!

Edited May 25, 2014 by Dorian

[Perigrina]

Welcome to Phatmass, Dorian.  I am fairly new here myself and am really enjoying it.

 

I, like you, object to the blurring of the line between faith and politics.  Personally, I do not identify with any political party.  They all fall short when measured against Church teaching.  All the social issues you mention are important.  Nevertheless, opposing abortion stands in a class by itself.  The right to life is the fundamental right on which all others rest.  There is no foundation for any other right, if we do not defend the right to life of all persons, from conception to natural death.  

 

I understand what you mean by culture war.  All issues are seen in terms of two opposing sides.  One picks a side and that determines one's position on every topic.  People on both these sides are guilty of shallow, over-simplified understanding of issues, knee-jerk reactions, and a sound bite mentality.  As if this were not bad enough, this polarization is accompanied by an ever increasing lack of civility.  As a society, we are losing our ability to think clearly, acknowledge complexity, and to express ourselves courteously.  Of course, you are upset to see the Church being dragged into this. So am I.

 

But there is something else going on that could also be called a culture war.  There is a battle that takes place in people's minds to determine the values and assumptions they use to interact with others.  Our minds ought to be formed by Church teaching, but we live in a secular society that drowns us in values that are opposed to Church teaching. Much of the time these values are not openly expressed.  They dwell in the sub-text of the arts and media of our culture.  We breathe them in unknowingly on a daily basis. Almost everyone, even among devout practicing Catholics, is influenced.  We need a Catholic culture that forms people to think and feel with the Church.

 

To a large extent, this lack of formation is what makes it so difficult for many Catholics to understand Church teaching on sexual morality. (I had exactly the same struggles with the Church teaching on homosexuality that you describe.)  We are not taught the intellectual and philosophical foundation required to understand reasoning based on Natural Law.  Few of us have what it takes to learn Aristotle and Aquinas on our own, nor do we have access to the resources to learn these things from others.

 

Natural Law does not mean that we figure out what is right by observing nature. Nor does it mean that we determine morality by what feels natural to us.  Natural Law means that things have a nature and understanding this nature allows us to know how to act.  It is the nature of a car to require fuel, periodic oil changes, rotation of tires, etc.  The rules of car maintenance are derived from the nature of the car.

 

Human beings have a nature that is far more complex than that of a car.  We have physical, social, emotional and spiritual aspects that are part of our nature.  The rules of sexual morality are derived from the nature of humans and the nature of the human sex act.  It is their nature that there be unity and integrity of all the aspects of what makes humans human.  Acts which separate the physical from the emotional or the spiritual are acts against our nature and therefore they are morally wrong.

 

I hope that helps.  And if it doesn't, at least, I am praying for you.

[blazeingstar]

Sometime I feel like the Catholic circles I'm around reduce the Faith down to opposing gay marriage and abortion, but don't do anything for the homeless, asylum seekers, or the marginalised.

 

 

Then you're looking in the wrong place.  Catholic Charities does more for those groups than any other organization in the US at least.  Even in the highly-liberal place that I live that seethes anger for Catholics, it is well known that when all else fails, government help, schools, etc, one can turn to Catholic charities.  

 

You simply need to find your group with the same passions as you.  Praying for the unborn in front of clinics, etc, was very important to one of the young adults groups I was in.  However, public prayer is not for me.  I found another group (less young adults) through Catholic Charities that did acts of service after Mass.  We made sandwiches for low income children to bring home at the end of their school day, we painted the inside of the retired priests home, we cooked meals immigrants to teach them how to cook with American ingredients while teaching them English. 

 

And sometimes, when we don't understand teachings, we must simply become obedient to them even if we internally disagree.  I think that the propagation of the EF is harmful to Church unity, but I am obedient that the Church knows what it's doing to allow these masses to be said.

[AugustineA]

Hmm, well first welcome to Phatmass! 

 

G.K. Chesterton said that the view of the Church was far more narrow from the outside than the inside. It's similar to walking through a narrow gothic doorway into the openness and beauty of a cathedral. From my perspective, some of your cares seem to be missing the forest for the trees. Yes, our beloved priests preach on homosexuality, abortion, contraception and other sexual sins, but meanwhile we give to the poor. There is always a Catholic hostel or charity with open doors. 

 

Consider these sins are not new. Read Augustine and you'll experience, much like myself, the sense that history is cyclical with the Church. Sixteen centuries ago all the bishops were still talking about and condemning the baby sacrifice of Carthage. Abortion is murder, plane and simple. Our understanding has not changed and never will. Sexual sins however go even further back to the ancient world. 

 

Why does the Church focus on sexual sins today? Again from my perspective, this is a dictate of secular society, not the Church. Gay rights is erroneously claimed to be the civil rights struggle of our era, and in the process everyone is attempting to redefine sexuality to support that endeavour. The Church responds to error in turn. People do not criticize the Church for being charitable. If they did they would by their own attempt preach our good fruit. They criticize the Church by the litmus of their own generational bias. Today it is ego and sex. If I can't play with myself and have a relationship based on physical gratification alone then my very being is on trial, and since it is given that I am correct then the Church must be on trial.

 

The squabbles between liberals and conservatives is sad. My priest describes it as the heresy of modernism sneaking into and dividing the Church with political language. I would simply suggest, don't let it get to you. We are all Catholic brothers and sisters. Sometimes people who celebrate the Latin Mass are a bit sensitive, but I think that's understandable. Alot of us are young people who are trying very hard to live Christian lives and get tempted, criticized, written off, debated and questioned by all their non-Catholic friends and coworkers. Then we seek safe refuge amongst Catholics and can draw very similar treatment. It will pass in time. The new kid on the block usually gets treated a bit weird. However, in this case the new kid on the block is actually the old kid coming back. It will take a bit of time to settle, but things are already looking up. 

 

God bless, already written too much. 

[mortify ii]

Peace be with you,

 

The first is the way the  Church gets so sucked into the culture wars. Sometime I feel like the Catholic circles I'm around reduce the Faith down to opposing gay marriage and abortion, but don't do anything for the homeless, asylum seekers, or the marginalised. I also hate the way that so many Catholics my age talk about "liberal" and "conservative" as if the Church is a political party. Don't get me wrong, I understand the Church's concern with these social issues (more so abortion than gay marriage) but to me there are things that are so many more important social issues and it feels like my generation of Catholics are just fixated on these two issues.

 

I agree the fixation on some things is unfortunate, Catholicism is so much more than a list of do's and don'ts. I also don't understand the fixation on homosexuality when there is a much greater epidemic among us, namely addiction to self abuse and pornography. That said however, we have to realize we are in a war. All over the world battles are being fought between those who represent the traditional mindset and those who represent the modern mindset. The former is founded on higher principles and the latter on the rejection of these principles. In the West the only defender of the cosmic order is the Catholic Church, and sadly it is a losing battle. The points of engagement are on abortion and gay marriage and the reasons are obvious. The concepts of "personhood", "marriage," and "liberty" are vital to our worldview and ethos. It's for this reason the opposition is not content with civil unions that bear the same exact rights as marriages, they want same sex unions to also be labelled "marriages" because it would be a major cultural victory, and would further push our society away from a traditional civilization towards the aberration that is modernity. 

 

The second is that I really struggle to accept a lot of the Church's sexual teaching. I can completely see Her reasoning behind stuff like saving sex for marriage and the sinfulness of pornography, but I can't for the life of me understand Her teaching on contraception, masturbation, or homosexuality (and i've been trying to for four years). I just don't see how the morality of the sexual act is contingent upon whether conception is possible or not. This is supposed to be a matter of 'natural law' accessible to reason alone and yet I've never heard an argument that is even remotely convincing in this regard. On homosexuality, well, I look at my gay friends and I just can't bring myself to view their loving and committed relationships as sinful. They're as committed, if not more so, than I ever have been in my heterosexual relationships. Catholicism requires me to tell them that they're better off single and alone for the rest of their life. I just can't do that.

 

It comes down to whether we recognize a cosmic order to the universe and secondly whether we conform to it or not. In our tradition "sin" is an act against the cosmic order and therefore against God. When a woman uses a contraceptive tablet she is acting contrary to her nature, when a man commits the sin of self abuse he acts contrary to his nature, and obviously any homosexual act can not fulfill the end the sexual union was created for. I think most people can come to understand how these acts are contrary to the designs of God and therefore realize they are sinful, but the much harder issue is convincing people to conform to their nature. The Western mindset is all about individuality, in essence we are our own god and can dispense with laws of nature as we like. So perhaps the first step is realizing you are a contingent being and therefore not free, but bound. 

[NotreDame]

When I read the autobiographies of great saints I see very little on the subjects you mention.  They don't lament church teaching or the behavior of others.  They focus on their own behavior and their relationship with God through Christ.

 

If you want a strong faith, spirituality, and relationship with Jesus, then pray for and focus on those things.  It will be the path less followed, for sure, but it will be fruitful. 

 

Of course, if you want to whine about Church teaching or lament the (apparent) behavior of others like you are doing, you will have lots more company. 
 

[Fidei Defensor]

This is my attitude: I may not grasp everything completely, but I will follow Holy Mother Church because she alone has the keys to heaven.

[Perigrina]

Of course, if you want to whine about Church teaching or lament the (apparent) behavior of others like you are doing, you will have lots more company. 

 

This is an unfair way to characterize Dorian's post.  It is very difficult to accept Church teaching when one cannot understand it.  I am very thankful that, when I was struggling with Church teaching on homosexuality, nobody told me to stop whining about it.  When people turn to us for help, it is wrong to speak of their concerns in this dismissive way. I am greatly disturbed that you would respond in such a way to a person in danger of losing the Faith.

[HisChildForever]

When I read the autobiographies of great saints I see very little on the subjects you mention.  They don't lament church teaching or the behavior of others.  They focus on their own behavior and their relationship with God through Christ.

 

If you want a strong faith, spirituality, and relationship with Jesus, then pray for and focus on those things.  It will be the path less followed, for sure, but it will be fruitful. 

 

Of course, if you want to whine about Church teaching or lament the (apparent) behavior of others like you are doing, you will have lots more company. 
 

 

In the gospels, Christ tells us to receive the Kingdom of God like a child (Mark 10:15). I want that connection with Him, a simple, humble faith. I see what Dorian is saying because, to me, Catholic theology can be extremely complex and difficult to digest. And it can be hard with the saints--I remember when I read Story of the Soul and Divine Mercy I actually became frustrated because both St. Terese and St. Faustina struck me as almost too perfect. I really couldn't identify with them. If I remember right, St. Terese yanked her sister's hair and cried for like hours at the atrocity of it. Then when I read St. Augustine, who practically berated himself at every turn, I wondered who on earth can I read that has some kind of middle ground.

[Nihil Obstat]

Part of the beauty of our faith, in my opinion, is that it can be as simple or complex as you need. You can study your whole life and learn more and more, or you can sit back and just embrace it. Neither is necessarily better or worse.

[TheresaThoma]

Dorian,

Forgive me if I am repeating what others have said (I didn't read all the responses). However here are my thoughts on what you said. I've heard and to some extent have experienced what you are describing. 

One of the biggest issues that I have found is when people try to make Church teachings black and white, and over simplify them. People want complex social teachings put into the sound bite form. It doesn't work. 

As far as the Church being "overly focused" on just abortion and homosexuality I think that is a misconception the media has presented. Both those topics make easy sensational stories. What you don't hear and see about are the other stories and issues. Its hard to sensationalize people providing food and shelter for the homeless or running an after school tutoring program for kids in bad neighborhoods. 

Personally I had major issues with the whole abortion hype. I felt a bit like a bad Catholic if I didn't go and pray in front of an abortion clinic or do sidewalk counseling. However that isn't true. That type of thing is not where I am called to, I don't do that whole high visibility thing. I have found though a different way to participate in the pro-life movement. I'm doing a year long volunteer program at a maternity home for homeless women. Its something that I never thought that I would do but I now love it, yes it is pro life but I know there are many many other young adults out there working on all different types of social issues. I have friends that are now all over the world working with the poor and those who need help. This is just where I have been called to for the moment.

The beauty of Catholicism is that we can question and explore. We aren't just asked to just sign on blindly and have to mindlessly follow a bunch of rules and teachings. If something doesn't make sense, find someone who knows a good bit about and and discuss it with them. Explore it! I think it is perfectly normal for converts (and even cradle Catholics) to have trouble with one or two issues. Those that choose to figure out the "why" and not just the what end up having a very vibrant faith.

Something else that has helped me is to remember "love the sinner hate the sin". It sounds simple but can be very challenging. Does engaging in sinful behavior make someone a bad person? No. This means that we can still love someone but we just don't encourage the sinful behavior. We don't need to be standing on a street corner telling everyone how bad they are for not following Church teachings. We do need to live out our lives in the most loving way we can. And often that means quietly humbly living out our lives within the Church.

PM me if you want to talk more about this.

 

[CatherineM]

If it makes you feel any better, Pope Francis has also publicly talked about not focusing on one problem at the expense of all other social justice issues. Sometimes the great divide in politics in the US invades the parishes, and we really shouldn't let it.

As to things like homosexuality, masterbation and contraception, as someone in a sacramental marriage, all I can say is that those issues can defeat the bond between a husband and wife. If you visualize sin as something that interferes with you relationship with God or your relationships with others in your life, especially those that love you, it's easier to understand why these issues are such a big deal to the Church.

[AugustineA]

Just got back from Mass. The homily was on marriage. The magisterium teaches that marriage is firstly for procreation and secondly to avoid sexual sin. Hence the heterosexual nature of marriage. However that requires believing in the Church first, so ultimately it's a matter of faith.

Nihil makes a great point. The humble Franciscan and the lofty theologian both meet at the same Mass. :)

[NotreDame]

This is an unfair way to characterize Dorian's post.  It is very difficult to accept Church teaching when one cannot understand it.

 

Hmm... I'm the only person on this thread that recommended the OP pray, yet I'm the one being unfair. 

[Anastasia13]

Part of the beauty of our faith, in my opinion, is that it can be as simple or complex as you need. You can study your whole life and learn more and more, or you can sit back and just embrace it. Neither is necessarily better or worse.

 

How can you make it simple again?