clk Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 I meant to add that I am harsh and reactive at times. This somehow has made me think more kindly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AugustineA Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 I was going to give this props but I've run out. Everyone must be being very clever and eloquent today. It's all good, I take rain cheques. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 It made sense to the Catholics of the last five centuries. How many people would you estimate that is? It made sense to a majority of the people in early civilization that the reason hurricanes and droughts happen is because they didn't dance enough at the rituals to the Gods. That doesn't make it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrysostom Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 It made sense to a majority of the people in early civilization that the reason hurricanes and droughts happen is because they didn't dance enough at the rituals to the Gods. That doesn't make it right. o.....k? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perigrina Posted May 24, 2014 Author Share Posted May 24, 2014 It made sense to a majority of the people in early civilization that the reason hurricanes and droughts happen is because they didn't dance enough at the rituals to the Gods. That doesn't make it right. It is not reasonable to compare the beliefs of Catholics to the superstitions of false religions. It is not an illogical superstition that causes us to not count the introductory Aves when speaking of the number of Aves in the Rosary. (By the way, as far as I know, when praying 15 decades a day, a person only prays the introductory beads once.That's how I do it. So that's 153.) It is an established convention. For example, Ash Wednesday is not 40 days before Easter. Also the traditional celebrations of Septuagesima, Sexagesima, and Quinqugesima Sunday, get their names from the Latin for 70th, 60th, and 50th, respectively. In other words, they count a week as ten days. It is pretty common to use numbers symbolically rather than literally in a religious context. There is really no question that the Rosary is historically related to the 150 Psalms. Saint John Paul said so himself. What does not make sense is to quibble over the exact number of Aves in the full Rosary in order to deny this connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truthfinder Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 Just to put a final nail in FP's argument coffin, the Dominicans (generally viewed as from where this devotion really took root and established the form we know), did not and in some some communities, do not, say the introductory Hail Mary's. They replace this with "Oh lord come to my assistance....etc." thus closely linking it to the breviary/office. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 fp - put the shovel down, son. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perigrina Posted May 24, 2014 Author Share Posted May 24, 2014 (edited) Just in case it is not clear, I have nothing personal against you, FP. I just have a tendency to debate as if my life depended on it, no matter what the subject. (Pray for my husband.) I really do like and admire you. I only figuratively beat people to a pulp when I respect them. It means I consider you a worthy opponent. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/DefeatMeansFriendship Edited May 24, 2014 by Perigrina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 Just to put a final nail in FP's argument coffin, the Dominicans (generally viewed as from where this devotion really took root and established the form we know), did not and in some some communities, do not, say the introductory Hail Mary's. They replace this with "Oh lord come to my assistance....etc." thus closely linking it to the breviary/office. The Dominicans do, however, say the Luminous Mysteries. I win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted May 24, 2014 Share Posted May 24, 2014 (edited) Well, I don't blame you for walking out. It's hard to control how you feel, and if sitting there and saying the rosary with them would just have made you more resentful and allow you to meditate on how much the woman annoys you, it's better that you removed yourself from the situation. Sure, I think those feelings were uncharitable and egotistical, but none of us are saints (yet?). You certainly don't have to say the Luminous Mysteries if you don't want to, and you don't have to like the way the woman does things. From an outsider's perspective it's easy for me to say that maybe God is trying to teach you patience through this lady, and humble obedience to persist in your regular devotions even when they aren't the most appealing in the moment. But all of that is something easier said than lived. It sounds like you're aware of yourself and your faults, and that you are trying to grow in holiness. Keep at it. :) Edited May 24, 2014 by Basilisa Marie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perigrina Posted May 24, 2014 Author Share Posted May 24, 2014 The Dominicans do, however, say the Luminous Mysteries. I win. Does the concept of "optional" mean anything to you? It is OK to pray them and OK not to pray them (unless one is doing something like denying that JPII was the pope and therefore did not have authority to crate new mysterires). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perigrina Posted May 24, 2014 Author Share Posted May 24, 2014 Well, I don't blame you for walking out. It's hard to control how you feel, and if sitting there and saying the rosary with them would just have made you more resentful and allow you to meditate on how much the woman annoys you, it's better that you removed yourself from the situation. Sure, I think those feelings were uncharitable and egotistical, but none of us are saints (yet?). You certainly don't have to say the Luminous Mysteries if you don't want to, and you don't have to like the way the woman does things. From an outsider's perspective it's easy for me to say that maybe God is trying to teach you patience through this lady, and humble obedience to persist in your regular devotions even when they aren't the most appealing in the moment. But all of that is something easier said than lived. It sounds like you're aware of yourself and your faults, and that you are trying to grow in holiness. Keep at it. :) I am sure regretting running out of props. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Not The Philosopher Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 The obvious solution to this controversy is to keep adding mysteries to the Rosary until the number of Hail Marys totals at 1500. That will keep both the number 150 preserved as well as the luminous mysteries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reminiscere Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 This isn't universal. The Dominican Rosary doesn't have this, nor does the Rosary the way it is usually recited here in Italy begin this way. Keep in mind there are three beginning Hail Marys before you do the Decades, so there are actually 159 Hail Marys, thus meaning the argument that there should only be three sets of Mysteries doesn't hold water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cartermia Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 I like this thread, I am just going to say that! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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