Second Entrance: Let's Get It Right This Time

[Hemma]

I think another interesting dilemma is that there are quite a few discerners who hope to be Carmelites .Of all of the many cloistered communities out there,this one probably has the most drastic adjustment from our every day living. We are so bombarded out here with constant external noise and stimuli, so used to making all of our own decisions about everything, and having instant gratification  for most of our needs and wants. All of this comes to an abrupt halt once the enclosure door closes behind us.And sadly, many Carmelite houses do not allow for live ins. The culture here in the US is one of abundance, and myriads of choices about almost everything. For the young especially, not having abundance and choice is difficult to even imagine. For those looking at this form of Monastic enclosed living, might be good to somehow have an opportunity to enter into this in stages. Don't have any idea how this would work, but I think it is a serious issue today. Maybe there are some here who have gone through this who have some insights and recommendations as to how to navigate these initial phases of strictly enclosed Religious life.

 

There's something very true in it. I've always felt a special fascination by the Carmel. But I couldn't imagine to live in papal enclosure, this was just too far away from my experience. So I entered an active-contemplative community with houses in different countries and got deployed in an ancient monastery. (The community holds very different types of locations, from "ordinary" flats to the above-mentioned monastery.) By chance I got  duties mostly inside the monastery. And after a few months I felt not only the deep meaning of the enclosure but also I wished to stay inside. That's one of the major reasons why I finally left the community, because it's very much in their charism NOT to have an enclosure.

 

Afterwards I was looking for communities with papal enclosure. Some years went by. Last year I finally discerned with a community following St. Benedict's Rule, but again I couldn't imagine any more to live in such a strict enclosure. I almost got panically from the imagination. They were very hesitative about live-ins during the time of our contact. Maybe they would have allowed it in a later stage. For different reasons I finally thought about another place:

By now I'm discerning with a quite conservative cistercian community who still remember the times when you came in order to stay. However, now they go on excursions just once and a while and also allow live-ins. I hope that this will be the middle course for me leading to "success". There I won't be forced by the charism to perform apostolic duties outside, but if necessary I may have the possibility to peep outside.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Senensis

[SilentJoy]

 


For the second time around - what was the hardest thing about the convent and community life for you? How can you mitigate/prepare yourself this time around?
The hardest thing was being under obedience to someone whose judgment I didn't trust. It makes the whole thing completely pointless. This time around, I'll observe and pray long and hard about the abbess, without worrying that it's sinfully judging her. And without glossing over problems in my mind, thinking that it'll 'all work out'.

 

Thanks, this was very helpful. Of course the leadership can change, but for a while I was discerning with a community that I liked but didn't quite trust; I thought it was all my fault and I just needed to be able to communicate better, obey better, etc. It has taken some time for me to realize that they have struggles too and we just weren't a good fit; it wasn't just me being "incorrigible" or whatever.

[SilentJoy]

 

 

That's why I'd like to avoid a second failure as far as possible. I think I just couldn't survive it. The biggest question is at the moment how to find the right monastery, but I think there are other interesting aspects as well.

 

Why does this need to have been a "failure" for you? You loved. You tried. You flew. You learned more about yourself and the world. Maybe "you know what it is to get too high, too far, too soon," (Mike Scott's "Whole of the Moon") but you got off the ground and you're willing to try again, and that's something significant that a lot of people have never done. 

 

There is a poem (I think it is by George MacDonald) that says, "...Surely THIS will kill me now - yet I bore, and am still bearing; only do not ask me how!" If you survived the first mortal blow, trust God that you will be able to bear the second as well if it should happen, and don't worry. If you focus on the fear of failure, you might find it too difficult to proceed. I'm trying to not worry so much about finding "THE ABSOLUTE RIGHT FOREVER HOME" because it just gives me lots of anxiety; a "for now" home is okay too, especially since its all I'll ever really have, since I can only live in the "now" anyway.

[marigold]

Why does this need to have been a "failure" for you? You loved. You tried. You flew. You learned more about yourself and the world. Maybe "you know what it is to get too high, too far, too soon," (Mike Scott's "Whole of the Moon") but you got off the ground and you're willing to try again, and that's something significant that a lot of people have never done. 
 
There is a poem (I think it is by George MacDonald) that says, "...Surely THIS will kill me now - yet I bore, and am still bearing; only do not ask me how!" If you survived the first mortal blow, trust God that you will be able to bear the second as well if it should happen, and don't worry. If you focus on the fear of failure, you might find it too difficult to proceed. I'm trying to not worry so much about finding "THE ABSOLUTE RIGHT FOREVER HOME" because it just gives me lots of anxiety; a "for now" home is okay too, especially since its all I'll ever really have, since I can only live in the "now" anyway.

  

Thanks, this was very helpful. Of course the leadership can change, but for a while I was discerning with a community that I liked but didn't quite trust; I thought it was all my fault and I just needed to be able to communicate better, obey better, etc. It has taken some time for me to realize that they have struggles too and we just weren't a good fit; it wasn't just me being "incorrigible" or whatever.

Can't prop either of these enough. Loving the poetry too.

[AccountDeleted]

Hi everybody, yesterday I read Marigold's story and I thought, perhaps we could collect a few tips regarding the second try.

I did leave not because consecrated life would not be my vocation - but because it just was the wrong place. Maybe it was also the wrong moment.

 

For me, the first try was a bit like Marigold wrote,

"....I went into it with 100% body and soul. Which is maybe why coming back has been such a shock - because on some level I truly wasn't expecting to, and had let go of a lot of the things we use to survive out in the 'jungle' even before I left..."

 

That's why I'd like to avoid a second failure as far as possible. I think I just couldn't survive it. The biggest question is at the moment how to find the right monastery, but I think there are other interesting aspects as well.

 

Entering a second time is not the same thing as entering the first time, because we already know what a massive thing it is to enter - and that it might go wrong as well. In my experience it makes a huge difference.

 

I don't really have a lot of advice, but I just wanted to comment on your statement above (in bold and underlined by me). Yes, you can survive it. But every time you 'fail' (in our own minds - no one else really sees it that way), it gets a little harder each time, not only to trust others, but also to trust our own judgment. And, no matter what kind of a saint you might be (and who am I to say there aren't some out there! :) ), it is going to hurt like h.e.l.l. any and every time you feel like you have failed or been rejected. I know whereof I speak.

 

And sometimes we need to go through all kinds of manure before we can crawl back up out of our holes of disappointment, disillusionment and disgust (with others and/or ourselves). The funny thing is that no matter how much we might wish it from time to time, HOPE never actually dies. Sometimes it goes into deep hibernation and we think it has died, but it is the nature of hope never to die. But, and here's the catch, sometimes when our hope starts to emerge again, as a little shoot perhaps, there is also an increase in pain, so we try to turn away from the hope and disappear back into forgetfulness again. But, because of its nature, that little shoot just won't go away, no matter how much we ignore it. It might get transformed into different dreams and desires, or it may resurrect in us our original ones, but as it grows, each time we acknowledge it, the pain also resurfaces - sorry to say.

 

Sounds depressing, doesn't it? But no! And here is the good part. The pain isn't our enemy, it is our wake up call - alarm clock, if you will. It tells us that it is time to start moving forward again and to leave behind all the dark matter attached to our memories. Until we move through the pain, we can't let go of the little (or big in some cases) sorrows, resentments, bitterness, anger, etc, that are holding us back from the next adventure that God has in store for us.  Once we stop fearing the pain, then we can move on to healing in our heart, and open ourselves to forgiveness, compassion for others, and even start to trust again - in ourselves, in others, and mostly importantly, in God.

 

As someone who has entered not once, not twice, not three times... well let's stop counting shall we and just say that 'as a person of some not inconsiderable experience in entering religious life', I can honestly tell you that God has plans for your good, and that no matter how painful some experiences can be, it is His love that will see you through it all. So, get angry at Him, if He deserves it (we often think He does, don't we?), and even threaten to forget Him, like Jeremiah did, or run away, like Jonah did, or tell Him that the ball is now in His court because you've had it with Him, but perhaps with some small part of your heart, try to hang on to His little finger, just in case you change your mind later.

 

I am always amazed that God really can and does heal us, but sometimes we have to reach rock bottom first. Resurrection comes, but the lead up to it is pretty grisly. Some of our Crosses might not actually kill us, but there sure are times when we might feel like they have, or even wish they had. But - as long as we hang around - we can be sure that little shoot of hope is going to emerge again sooner or later.

 

On a practical level, there has been a lot of good advice on here: take it slow, don't burn your bridges at home, don't beat yourself up over apparent failures. God bless you - it's your efforts He loves.
 

[maximillion]

^^^^^

 

Can't prop you enough nunsense!!!!!!!

 

 

As usual spot on and your own sense of hope and still being in love with Him shines through....

[Hemma]

Maybe I should make it more precisely: Leaving a community (and entering another one) wouldn't be as bad for me as returning to the world again. So my emergency plan for this time is leaving the community only by entering another. (Of course: finally everything will go completely else than I have planned before and yes, everything will be good.) Has anyone of you read the novel "Cosmas" by Pierre de Calan? Cosmas finds his peace with La Trappe, finally, but not how he or others had planned. Cosmas dies on the way to his third attempt of entering La Trappe, and he becomes buried on the monastery cemetery... The book is really worth to be read.

[Hemma]

Well :)

Tomorrow I go for about 9 days to the monastery I'm actually discerning with. I'm very much looking towards it. On the other hand, there's still so much to do until I leave tomorrow in the morning, that I shall be very glad when everything is done - I'm not ready to think about it yet. But in a few hours it will become true...

 

:nun1:

[Feankie]

Prayers for a fruitful stay at the monastery. Don't stress about getting things done.  If they are not pertinent to your leaving, they'll still be there when you return :)

[Deus te Amat]

I don't really have a lot of advice, but I just wanted to comment on your statement above (in bold and underlined by me). Yes, you can survive it. But every time you 'fail' (in our own minds - no one else really sees it that way), it gets a little harder each time, not only to trust others, but also to trust our own judgment. And, no matter what kind of a saint you might be (and who am I to say there aren't some out there! :) ), it is going to hurt like h.e.l.l. any and every time you feel like you have failed or been rejected. I know whereof I speak.

 

And sometimes we need to go through all kinds of manure before we can crawl back up out of our holes of disappointment, disillusionment and disgust (with others and/or ourselves). The funny thing is that no matter how much we might wish it from time to time, HOPE never actually dies. Sometimes it goes into deep hibernation and we think it has died, but it is the nature of hope never to die. But, and here's the catch, sometimes when our hope starts to emerge again, as a little shoot perhaps, there is also an increase in pain, so we try to turn away from the hope and disappear back into forgetfulness again. But, because of its nature, that little shoot just won't go away, no matter how much we ignore it. It might get transformed into different dreams and desires, or it may resurrect in us our original ones, but as it grows, each time we acknowledge it, the pain also resurfaces - sorry to say.

 

Sounds depressing, doesn't it? But no! And here is the good part. The pain isn't our enemy, it is our wake up call - alarm clock, if you will. It tells us that it is time to start moving forward again and to leave behind all the dark matter attached to our memories. Until we move through the pain, we can't let go of the little (or big in some cases) sorrows, resentments, bitterness, anger, etc, that are holding us back from the next adventure that God has in store for us.  Once we stop fearing the pain, then we can move on to healing in our heart, and open ourselves to forgiveness, compassion for others, and even start to trust again - in ourselves, in others, and mostly importantly, in God.

 

As someone who has entered not once, not twice, not three times... well let's stop counting shall we and just say that 'as a person of some not inconsiderable experience in entering religious life', I can honestly tell you that God has plans for your good, and that no matter how painful some experiences can be, it is His love that will see you through it all. So, get angry at Him, if He deserves it (we often think He does, don't we?), and even threaten to forget Him, like Jeremiah did, or run away, like Jonah did, or tell Him that the ball is now in His court because you've had it with Him, but perhaps with some small part of your heart, try to hang on to His little finger, just in case you change your mind later.

 

I am always amazed that God really can and does heal us, but sometimes we have to reach rock bottom first. Resurrection comes, but the lead up to it is pretty grisly. Some of our Crosses might not actually kill us, but there sure are times when we might feel like they have, or even wish they had. But - as long as we hang around - we can be sure that little shoot of hope is going to emerge again sooner or later.

 

On a practical level, there has been a lot of good advice on here: take it slow, don't burn your bridges at home, don't beat yourself up over apparent failures. God bless you - it's your efforts He loves.
 

 

This, this, a thousand times this.

 

Nunsense, it is good so see you again. Thank you for sharing your wisdom with us.  :buddies:

 

Senesis, your emphatic insistence that you will never leave the religious life again troubles me. I entered religious life with the intention of never leaving, and trying to reconcile that -- my will, with God's will for me to leave, nearly broke me. God's will be done! not mine, oh Lord.

 

A true sign of spiritual growth is "He must increase, I must decrease" -- a true surrendering of self in the will of God, and the authentic peace and joy that accompanies it. Do not enter with a "back up plan" or a dictation of what will happen. Enter desiring to do the will of God, and seeking to say yes at each step along the way.

 

Just my two cents from the other side of the world.

 

 

Prayers for you. Please pray for me.

[maximillion]

Can't echo this ^^^^^^^ enough. I came out after 14 years. You just don't know what He has planned for you down the road. It was the hardest decision I ever made and now I know it was the right one, but it was not something I ever imagined or expected.