Climate Change Is A Pro-life Issue

[arfink]

I dont believe in this one or the other approach. You can be against abortion AND for greener alternatives to mitigate climate change. I dont know why people seem to think you need to be only in one camp. Cant we fight for global change AND fight abortion?

But I suppose you have a point if you are going to consider our broken political system. Where the polarity is always in favor of one or the other...so that basically leaves you to choose which smells of elderberries.

 

So then isnt it morally permissible to choose the lesser evil?

 

 

I do believe, Arfink, that even while you cant attribute direct death to Climate Change right now, it is imminent. It will destroy resources like crops, it will diminish drinking water etc. We are in direct danger of this phenomena and it is due to our negligence. I do not believe its ok to push aside just because we arent seeing the danger in our own back yard. I think your approach is a very very bad one. The effects are happening now and they are only going to get worse. There is no reason that we cant refocus into greener alternatives. The only problems are the huge oil companies, lobbyists and politicians that are too self interested to do anything about it.

 

Abortion isn't the lesser evil, just an FYI. Deliberately choosing to kill people (which is what abortion is) and the direct/proximate support of people who choose to do this (which is what voting for pro-abortion candidates is) is definitely more evil than deliberately choosing not to curtail CO2 emissions which are correlated with small increases in temperature which may or may not diminish (and will probably not completely destroy) the ability of humans to provide food and shelter for themselves for the foreseeable future.

[CrossCuT]

Abortion isn't the lesser evil, just an FYI. Deliberately choosing to kill people (which is what abortion is) and the direct/proximate support of people who choose to do this (which is what voting for pro-abortion candidates is) is definitely more evil than deliberately choosing not to curtail CO2 emissions which are correlated with small increases in temperature which may or may not diminish (and will probably not completely destroy) the ability of humans to provide food and shelter for themselves for the foreseeable future.

 

I guess it depends how you look at it. I dont believe outlawing abortion will stop abortions; we need to educate people and change their hearts. Does that mean I wont vote against abortion if I have the chance? Of course not. 

 

However there are soooooooooo many things that weigh on my conscience than just abortion when you are speaking in terms of voting and politics. I cant vote republican...even if they are pro life for the most part. They are a party of greed who do not take care of the poor. They also deny climate change and help corporations succeed in draining money out of the economy. It is a party of pure greed run solely by money. 

 

Liberals are greedy as well...but they support abortion for the most part. I dont really know how to vote anymore. I am a bad Catholic if I vote Republican because I am helping push the poor down. I am a bad Catholic if I vote democrat because I support abortion. I dont want to do either. 

[Credo in Deum]

I blame Superman and Al Gore for climate change.  

Edited May 20, 2014 by Credo in Deum

[Perigrina]

So then isnt it morally permissible to choose the lesser evil?

 

No.

[arfink]

I guess it depends how you look at it. I dont believe outlawing abortion will stop abortions; we need to educate people and change their hearts. Does that mean I wont vote against abortion if I have the chance? Of course not. 

 

However there are soooooooooo many things that weigh on my conscience than just abortion when you are speaking in terms of voting and politics. I cant vote republican...even if they are pro life for the most part. They are a party of greed who do not take care of the poor. They also deny climate change and help corporations succeed in draining money out of the economy. It is a party of pure greed run solely by money. 

 

Liberals are greedy as well...but they support abortion for the most part. I dont really know how to vote anymore. I am a bad Catholic if I vote Republican because I am helping push the poor down. I am a bad Catholic if I vote democrat because I support abortion. I dont want to do either. 

 

No, it doesn't change anything. Abortion is objectively more evil.

 

You cannot perform an abortion without intending to kill a living human being. It is, by its very nature, always and everywhere, wrong.

 

You can, in fact, release greenhouse gases without intending to kill a living human being.

 

The number of people affected has nothing to do with it. The greed of the parties involved has nothing to do with it. The effectiveness of outlawing abortion has nothing to do with it. Abortion is always wrong.

 

Fine, so some Republicans are only marginally pro-life. That's not good. But that doesn't mean I think it's OK to choose the person who thinks abortion is OK! I have to seriously distrust someone who says it's OK to directly kill other human beings but that it's not OK to inadvertently cause them to suffer. That is seriously inconsistent and doesn't make any sense, and definitely makes me want to distrust them.

[CrossCuT]

No.

 

 

No, it doesn't change anything. Abortion is objectively more evil.

 

You cannot perform an abortion without intending to kill a living human being. It is, by its very nature, always and everywhere, wrong.

 

You can, in fact, release greenhouse gases without intending to kill a living human being.

 

The number of people affected has nothing to do with it. The greed of the parties involved has nothing to do with it. The effectiveness of outlawing abortion has nothing to do with it. Abortion is always wrong.

 

Fine, so some Republicans are only marginally pro-life. That's not good. But that doesn't mean I think it's OK to choose the person who thinks abortion is OK! I have to seriously distrust someone who says it's OK to directly kill other human beings but that it's not OK to inadvertently cause them to suffer. That is seriously inconsistent and doesn't make any sense, and definitely makes me want to distrust them.

 

 

So how do you guys vote?

[arfink]

So how do you guys vote?

 

In the past I have done my best to seek candidates who are not affiliated with either of the two major parties in order to increase my chances of finding candidates who do support the best interests of humanity. Sometimes I find them. Sometimes I don't. I have actually gone to the polls and only partially completed a ballot before because there was nobody worthy for certain positions. So far I have not had to completely throw in the towel yet.

[Credo in Deum]

So how do you guys vote?

 

[CrossCuT]

 

ROFL

[arfink]

We have an obligation to seek out good people for office and vote for them. That's all. We don't have an obligation to ensure a certain outcome, and we're not culpable if the outcome doesn't go the way we want it to. There is no guilt in "letting the bad guys win" because we don't want to support a slightly less evil bad guy. :P

Edited May 20, 2014 by arfink

[CrossCuT]

Im not satisfied with sitting idle. 

[Perigrina]

So how do you guys vote?

 

Lately I have not been able to vote for anyone in good conscience.  ideally I go to the polling station and spoil my ballot, but that does not always work out so I just don't go.

[Maggyie]

Yes it's a cunundrum... So, if you can't find a truly pro-life candidate, then run yourself! We need good people in politics. We can't just say a pox on both their houses. We have to be involved.

I think it's important to recognize there are different levels of things. But it's not satisfactory to vote based on what level of evil a candidate participates in. Sure most of the Democratic candidates are terrible (not all) but that's not a reason to vote for the other side.

I can usually find local candidates to vote for without much trouble. The lower the level of government the less rigid they come. For presidential races I like to write in a name.

[NotreDame]

I've not heard a single human casualty of this yet, despite concerns that warming is supposed to be accelerating more rapidly now. I think I'll take the wait-and-see approach on whether global warming is as big a catastrophe for humans, as we've been known as the most resilient and adaptable of every creature on the planet.

 

probably a good approach considering the data:

 

 

From:

 

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2008/07/05/going-down-death-rates-due-to-extreme-weather-events/

 

Edited May 21, 2014 by NotreDame

[Anastasia13]

Climate change is a political issue.  To a large extent, is about posturing and image.  Fighting abortion is about saving lives.
 

 

I almost died because of environmental issues. Having access to cleaner air somewhere and the ability to afford medication saved my life. To me, these are also about saving lives. I don't care what people say about climate change. I want clean air so that my daughter can live and play outside and have fun in the yard.

 

Yesterday, a woman a friend knows died because of asthma-not having clean air can cause asthma among other things including things that kill. I will never understand how stopping abortion is the only pro-life issue except for PR purposes to the cause.

 

If we want to truly be pro-life, we must embrace supporting all life, from fetus to deathbed and everything in between.

 

Plus demonstrating that attitude on more than one or two issues takes a lot of wind out of liberals' arguments when they say Christianity should include caring for the poor and needy and use that as a reason for voting for the pro-choice guy. Conservatives need more PR on this, IMO.