Popcorn Movies And Mindless Violence

[Nihil Obstat]

I think the presence or absence of a moral theme also makes a difference in how we should evaluate violence in film. If I were to watch a violent film that seemed to support consequentialist or utilitarian themes, I would probably find it far more abhorrent than a violent film that depicted more noble principles.

I am trying to think of some films I may have seen with a consequentialist mindset. I am uncomfortable with implicit acceptance of torture in Taken, although I still like it as a movie in a general sense.

I found 300 to be fairly empty and vacuous without a real moral anchor. But I only saw that once, when it was in theatres, so maybe I am remembering it wrong,

[Perigrina]

Another point in favour of fictional violence is that violent imagery is used in Scripture and throughout Catholic tradition.  Until recently the image of being "soldiers for Christ" was normally used to explain the Sacrament of Confirmation.  It is the central image in the great devotional work Spiritual Combat.  Military imagery has also been important for Jesuits.  The current attitude toward violence is a new development.

 

To some extent, CS Lewis explored the relationship between physical battle and spiritual battle in his book Perelandra (aka Voyage to Venus).  Anyone interested in this topic might appreciate reading it. 

[Semper Catholic]

My husband commented on not liking the violence of the movie when we saw it, so I can understand having that reaction. It did not bother me and I even actively liked some of the fight scenes, for example the fight in the elevator. The fighting in the movie is, as you say, over-the-top and unrealistic. I do not have a problem with this. It is fitting that fighting that is being used symbolically to represent the fight between good and evil would be highly stylized. It has more in common with choreography than with real fighting because, like dance, it is an art form. It's purpose, unlike that of real violence, is to communicate. Movie violence should therefore be evaluated in terms of the message it conveys.

Violence is not intrinsically evil. Violence which is ordered to its proper end is morally good. It is right to use violence when it is necessary in self-defense, to protect the innocent or to fight evil. Violence, however, can be perverted towards evil ends. Such violence is like pornography in that pornography is a perversion of the good of sex. Nevertheless, there are significant differences.

One main reason that pornography is wrong is that it violates the exclusivity of properly ordered sex. Exclusivity is not a characteristic of properly ordered violence. One may be called upon to fight various foes at various times in various circumstances. Furthermore, unlike sex, one must train and practice the skills of violence in order to be able to fight well when it is necessary. It is a very good thing to enter marriage as a virgin, while it is disastrous to enter battle without training. It is good and necessary to practice battle and imagine battle when not in real battle. It is neither good nor necessary to practice sex and imagine sex when not in marriage.

There is a tendency in our culture to be unfairly negative about violence. I suspect that this is a symptom of the feminization of society, since violence is especially the domain of men. Men's tendency to have greater skill in violence is often portrayed as a negative quality, rather a useful component of their inherent roles as protector and provider. For many modern people the concept of good violence is too foreign to grasp.

I think that violence in movies ought to be evaluated on a case by case basis. We should not assume that violence, even unrealistic violence, is always bad.

LOL at this logic.

As someone who's profession and life revolves around doing harm to others I can tell you violence in all cases is a terrible thing. There is absolutely no such thing as good violence. Those are words used by people who have never been called to inflict harm against someone else.

Trying to argue that sex is worse then violence is as backwards as a football bat.

[Perigrina]

LOL at this logic.

As someone who's profession and life revolves around doing harm to others I can tell you violence in all cases is a terrible thing. There is absolutely no such thing as good violence. Those are words used by people who have never been called to inflict harm against someone else.

Trying to argue that sex is worse then violence is as backwards as a football bat.

 

If you believe that you are in a profession that involves you doing something that is morally wrong, you have an obligation to change profession.
 

[Semper Catholic]

If you believe that you are in a profession that involves you doing something that is morally wrong, you have an obligation to change profession.

No where in that quote did i say i believed it was morally wrong. I did say it is terrible. Promoting violence in anyway shape or form should be a much worse sin then sex.

I'll reiterate by saying once again that anyone who believes differently is naive and likely has never been put in a situation to experience violence. Edited May 20, 2014 by Semper Catholic

[Perigrina]

It certainly isn't wrong but it is terrible. Promoting violence in anyway shape or form should be a much worse sin then sex.

 

When I wrote about "good violence" I was conveying the idea that it is morally right.  You apparently agree with me that there are circumstances in which violence is morally right.  I agree with you that violence is terrible and should only be used when necessary.  

 

One does not need personal experience of violence to comment on the moral status of violence.  One needs to have studied Church teaching on morality (which I have). 

 

Does an unrealistic portrayal violence in movies promote morally evil violence?  I am unaware of any definitive answer to this question.  It seems to me that a movie such as Winter Soldier that has a good moral message is unlikely to promote immoral violence. So, in my opinion, the answer is no.

 

By the way, sex is not, in itself, a sin.  It is a sin when it is misused.  Just like violence.
 

[Credo in Deum]

Trying to argue that sex is worse then violence is as backwards as a football bat.

 

Your move, Semper!

[Semper Catholic]

When I wrote about "good violence" I was conveying the idea that it is morally right. You apparently agree with me that there are circumstances in which violence is morally right. I agree with you that violence is terrible and should only be used when necessary.

One does not need personal experience of violence to comment on the moral status of violence. One needs to have studied Church teaching on morality (which I have).

Does an unrealistic portrayal violence in movies promote morally evil violence? I am unaware of any definitive answer to this question. It seems to me that a movie such as Winter Soldier that has a good moral message is unlikely to promote immoral violence. So, in my opinion, the answer is no.

By the way, sex is not, in itself, a sin. It is a sin when it is misused. Just like violence.

There is no "good" violence.

[Perigrina]

There is no "good" violence.

 

I have explicitly told you that I am using "good" to mean "morally right".  This is an accepted and conventional use of the word.

 

Since you do believe that there is morally right violence, you must have some reason for objecting to using the word "good".  Could you explain what that is.

[Credo in Deum]

The person who gives you AID's through sex is better than the person who slaps you in the face telling you to keep it in your pants. Why won't you get this, Perigrina?

 

 

 

[Semper Catholic]

The person who gives you AID's through sex is better than the person who slaps you in the face telling you to keep it in your pantaloons. Why won't you get this, Perigrina?

Lol ill take bad analogies for $500 Alex.

[Semper Catholic]

I have explicitly told you that I am using "good" to mean "morally right". This is an accepted and conventional use of the word.

Since you do believe that there is morally right violence, you must have some reason for objecting to using the word "good". Could you explain what that is.

The word good implies something positive. Doing the right thing isn't always a "good" or positive thing. The military likes to refer to this as taking the hard right over the easy wrong.

[Perigrina]

The word good implies something positive. Doing the right thing isn't always a "good" or positive thing. The military likes to refer to this as taking the hard right over the easy wrong.

 

I will make a point to use terminology that you are more comfortable with in future discussions with you.  However, note that I did not say anything that you actually disagree with.  You just did not like the wording.
 

[Nihil Obstat]

Shall we say "just" instead?

[Credo in Deum]

Lol ill take bad analogies for $500 Alex.

Sorry we are out of those.  The categories left are:

 

Handball, Slap-sex, and Mike Tyson.