Florence And Hell For Infants

[Eliakim]

Dairygirl, are you still here? 

[dairygirl4u2c]

yes i am still here.

it seems the thread has gone off on tangent so i dont see much point continuing.

 

but, as to a couple points. i would think that council and even that part of the council about original sin was infallible, cause it was in a line of "we define..." and right after it, it said "we also define...". as ive mentioned earlier.

 

and as ive mentioned earlier, while it may be said that the teaching may have meant something other than hell for unbaptized babies, i see no other explanation that would suffice for what they meant. if you have original sin alone, you go to hell. that would mean babies, as all others have other sins.

[Benedictus]

The sort of negative view that you express about the Middle Ages is exactly the view promoted by the "Enlightenment".  They were all about how superior and better educated they were and put down the people of this period to justify themselves, especially their characteristic questioning of authority. While there may not have been a high literacy rate during the Middle Ages, the people were not stupid or ignorant.  And their faith was something we could all learn from.  I have an above average amount of theological education and I would trade it for the faith of a medieval peasant.

 

It was a time when virtually everyone had a hierarchical view of the world.  People did not feel oppressed by this.  There is a certain stability and security in knowing your place in the world and what is expected of you.  Everyone had the rights and responsibilities of his station.

 

It was foreign to their way of thinking to question St. Augustine.  He was an authority on doctrine and questioning his views on original sin just was not an option.  In order to reconcile this view with our belief in a loving God, the idea of limbo was developed.

 

Our modern propensity for questioning authority does not make us superior to these people.  The majority of modern people have a superficial understanding of most subjects and yet have no qualms about setting their opinions and feelings above any other authority.  As a culture we are remarkably foolish in this regard and try to convince ourselves otherwise by making up stories about the stupidity of the people of the past for accepting authority.  As far as I can tell, we are the stupid ones.

 

 

Well, I'll leave the going in circles there rather than pick over this. I don't see my view changing on this and some people here don't seem to see how limbo is reliant, no caused, by Augustines theology. You'll be glad to know I'll be entering a monastery, although with a parish and school, but I won't ever become Pope :cool:
 

Edited May 20, 2014 by Benedictus

[Anastasia13]

This thread title makes me want eggs florentine.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Light and Truth

[Credo in Deum]

Great you said eggs.  Now I want a sasuage and egg McMuffin.

 

[Eliakim]

Daisygirl,

 

What about the idea if the group of people listed in Florence's Cantate Dominio as damned (Jews, heretics, schismatics etc...) would have been understood at the time by all familiar with scholastic subtleties (which they likely were since Peter Lombard and St. Thomas Aquinas' works were popular) to mean only if a Jew/heretic/schismatic persistently with full knowledge and intent rejected Christ? 

 

Again I'm pickin up what you're puttin down chica.  I sympathize with you.  But what do you think of that? 

 

Also I tried sending you some links that explain this more and other stuff I know you would enjoy but your PM isn't working...try cleaning out your inbox and perhaps PM me?

 

Ciao,

E