Cherie Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Please, Pham, I need your help. I hear a LOT of quotes regarding modesty coming from Pope Pius XII's "Allocution to the Sodality of Mary Immaculate" from July 17, 1954. The problem is, they're always in bits and pieces. I cannot for the life of me find the ENTIRE text of this allocution. Then again, I'm not the best at internet searches. Can ANYONE point me to the full text of this speech? I'm starting to wonder if it actually even existed in the first place!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) I tried. The only things I could find that weren't small quotes from Pius XII were newspaper clippings from 1954 which talked about people going to the event. So at least it did take place, and the full text likely exist some where, not every thing is on the internet as crazy as that may sound. Edited May 14, 2014 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherie Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 Thanks for your help! I'm glad to know the event did take place. I have seen a few quotes attributed to Pope Pius XII from that speech, but it seems as though they are not fully accurate--that someone clipped a quote, added in their own words, and now it's touted as being from the Pope when it really wasn't, and got passed down through the modesty police that way. I'd like to see the entire speech to put it all in context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Do you have the means by which to search in the presumably original Italian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Do you have the means by which to search in the presumably original Italian? Good thinking! I didn't even think of using Italian in the search. So I just searched for "Papa Pio XII 17 luglio 1954" and bam! But it's not in Italian, but in French! Google translation: https://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=fr&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.vatican.va%2Fholy_father%2Fpius_xii%2Fspeeches%2F1954%2Fdocuments%2Fhf_p-xii_spe_19540717_pellegrinaggio-maria-immacolata_fr.html French: http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/pius_xii/speeches/1954/documents/hf_p-xii_spe_19540717_pellegrinaggio-maria-immacolata_fr.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherie Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 Many many thanks!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 I think that Italian women are disproportionately attractive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Maybe that's why it was written in Italian rather than English. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherie Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 Maybe that's why it was written in Italian rather than English. Actually, it was written in French! Sorry, dude. :( But KnightofChrist, your help was very valuable. I have since discovered, via the cursory Google translate translation and a friend who speaks French, that the attributed quote is NOT found in that discourse. Since you have shown yourself to be so awesome at this, can you find even the NAME of a discourse given by Pius XII on August 29, 1954? That is, apparently, the *actual* source of this quote. I've looked, but I can't find even the name of a discourse given by him on that date. I'm sure there was one, but I can't find it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Actually, it was written in French! Sorry, dude. :( But KnightofChrist, your help was very valuable. I have since discovered, via the cursory Google translate translation and a friend who speaks French, that the attributed quote is NOT found in that discourse. Since you have shown yourself to be so amesome at this, can you find even the NAME of a discourse given by Pius XII on August 29, 1954? That is, apparently, the *actual* source of this quote. I've looked, but I can't find even the name of a discourse given by him on that date. I'm sure there was one, but I can't find it. It may help me if you would post the quote(s) in question. I've found quotes that speak of modest dress or rather immodest dress on beaches and other places. Some sites have it dated August 29th, 1954, others have the same quote dated August 15th 1954. I think I have found it, but without quotes and some type of name I'm not sure. I found a newspaper clipping from the Tablet newspaper written in '54 that that reports on the discourse. If this is it it is not a discourse as much it is a letter written by Cardinal Ciriaci by the express instructions of Pope Pius XII to the Bishops of the world. --- VATICAN CITY Modesty in Dress Pope Pius XII, in a letter to the Bishops of the world written at his express instructions by Cardinal Ciriaci, Prefect of the Sacred Congregation of the Council, and now published in the Ada Apostolicae Sedis*, calls for a sterner view of immodesty in dress, described as "a most serious plague of the present time." The letter recalls that one of the principal aims of the Marian Year is "a salutary reform of morals among Christians," and says that such a reform should. be directed in'particular against "indecencies of fashion which, especially in the summer-time, furnish a sad and blameworthy spectacle." "This is true not only of the beaches, not only of holiday resorts, but of the city and village streets and other places both private and public. Even in the House of God there is a tendency to wear dress that is unworthy of the occasion and irreverent, and of which the spiritually ruinous effects, especially on young people, are easy to imagine." The letter goes on to say that even such pagan writers as Cicero and Seneca denounced styles of dress that were offensive to modesty and decency, and that Catholics, for whom the body is the temple of the Holy Ghost, to be preserved from any profanation, should all the more observe due modesty. Source: http://archive.thetablet.co.uk/article/28th-august-1954/21/news-notes-texts *Source?: http://www.documentacatholicaomnia.eu/04z/z_1954-1954__Sancta_Sedes__Acta_Apostolicae_Sedis_Vol_046__LT.pdf.html Edited May 14, 2014 by KnightofChrist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherie Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 Wow, thank you so much. I am very thoroughly impressed! This is the quote: "To say that 'modesty is a matter of custom' is just as wrong as to say 'honesty is a matter of custom.'" It seems as though it wasn't exactly said AS SUCH by Pope Pius XII, but that's why I want to find the original text! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cherie Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 What especially tipped me off that it might be phony (or at least a misquote) is the part that says, "just as wrong as..." It just seems to me that someone like Pope Pius XII, in the time period in which he lived, with the office he held, would have expressed that phrase much more...verbosely, perhaps. I'm fully willing to admit I may be wrong, and I'd be happy to admit that I'm wrong, if someone can do so from the ORIGINAL SOURCE! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KnightofChrist Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Wow, thank you so much. I am very thoroughly impressed! This is the quote: "To say that 'modesty is a matter of custom' is just as wrong as to say 'honesty is a matter of custom.'" It seems as though it wasn't exactly said AS SUCH by Pope Pius XII, but that's why I want to find the original text! Just pasting that quote into any search engine only brings up one site, and the quote doesn't even appear to be there either. Later tonight if I am able I'll try and pick out the letter from the Ada Apostolicae Sedis that I linked to earlier. I'll also try to post the original text if I find it, and the translation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perigrina Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Just pasting that quote into any search engine only brings up one site, and the quote doesn't even appear to be there either. Later tonight if I am able I'll try and pick out the letter from the Ada Apostolicae Sedis that I linked to earlier. I'll also try to post the original text if I find it, and the translation. I don't know if it will affect your search, but you should know that "Ada Apostolicae Sedis" contains a typo. The first word should be "Acta". (typical scanning error) I'm impressed with your research skills. Very nice. Edited May 14, 2014 by Perigrina Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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