Livin_the_MASS Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 I have seen this over and over again. Do you think smarts open the gates of Heaven? I don't think so! It is the Divine Mercy of God that we get to Heaven. Yes Theology helps us understand God, but God is over knowledge and Theology. It is a gift from Him to us to help understand Him, the gift is not to be over the Giver! Did He not say unless you become like a child will not enter the kingdom? I am pretty sure He did. Correct me if I am wrong though. Little things done out of great love build the kingdom. Prayer, sacrifice, penance, love, charity, but wait is this being emotional? Hmmm well from my study of the lives of the saints, it was the life of sacrifice, love toward each other to the end. So if emotion is good for them and especially Our Lord who comes first, it's good enough for me! No emotion? Too much emotion? Give me a break! Pax Christi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 somehow the fact that ppl want to have a theological discussion means they're not childlike in spirituality? just because they want to honestly discuss differences of opinion using the wisdom of the ages you get mad. and frankly, this "emotional" stuff, you missed the point. there's a spiritual reality far above emotions, we don't just decide what is true by what we feel is right. Pax Amorque Christi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted June 7, 2004 Author Share Posted June 7, 2004 [quote name='Aloysius' date='Jun 7 2004, 03:53 PM'] somehow the fact that ppl want to have a theological discussion means they're not childlike in spirituality? just because they want to honestly discuss differences of opinion using the wisdom of the ages you get mad. and frankly, this "emotional" stuff, you missed the point. there's a spiritual reality far above emotions, we don't just decide what is true by what we feel is right. Pax Amorque Christi [/quote] You like to put words in my mouth! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 i've said it b4 and i'll say it again, you guys are crazy: i'm outta here. PAX OUT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest JeffCR07 Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Just some thoughts on that post: Faith Like A Child: I'm sure that Christ did not mean for us to be "ignorant" like a child, but rather, when a child loves something, s/he is captivated by it fully. If it is a puzzle, they will keep at it for hours and hours and hours. They will either a.) get it eventually, or b.) ask for help. This is how we should be with Theology. It is a puzzle we cannot possibly solve. However, if we truly love Christ, we will try our hardest at it and, when we finally reach the point where we simply cannot understand, we must ask for help (from the Trinity and from the Magisterium). On Emotion: I only want to offer that we should be careful when we speak of emotions. Faith is not a warm or fuzzy feeling, nor is it a proud and steadfast resolve. Faith is the rock that remains, even when one is "feeling" emotions of sadness or depression. Faith is the pillar that holds us up when proud and steadfast resolve fails. It is faith, not emotions, that brings martyrs to witness and sinners to conversion. If faith were merely emotions, we would be doomed. However, in His wisdom, God has seperated them and we have faith on the one hand, and reason and emotion on the other. On Salvific Grace: Here I'm completely behind you. It is the Grace of God and our own accepting of that grace through the excersizing of our free will (via our profession of faith and the deeds that bear witness to that faith) that saves us. Brains will not get a person into heaven. Neither will superpowerful emotions. Trust in God and faith in His Church: these are things which are infinately greater than any of our temporal gifts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livin_the_MASS Posted June 7, 2004 Author Share Posted June 7, 2004 [quote name='JeffCR07' date='Jun 7 2004, 04:14 PM'] Just some thoughts on that post: Faith Like A Child: I'm sure that Christ did not mean for us to be "ignorant" like a child, but rather, when a child loves something, s/he is captivated by it fully. If it is a puzzle, they will keep at it for hours and hours and hours. They will either a.) get it eventually, or b.) ask for help. This is how we should be with Theology. It is a puzzle we cannot possibly solve. However, if we truly love Christ, we will try our hardest at it and, when we finally reach the point where we simply cannot understand, we must ask for help (from the Trinity and from the Magisterium). On Emotion: I only want to offer that we should be careful when we speak of emotions. Faith is not a warm or fuzzy feeling, nor is it a proud and steadfast resolve. Faith is the rock that remains, even when one is "feeling" emotions of sadness or depression. Faith is the pillar that holds us up when proud and steadfast resolve fails. It is faith, not emotions, that brings martyrs to witness and sinners to conversion. If faith were merely emotions, we would be doomed. However, in His wisdom, God has seperated them and we have faith on the one hand, and reason and emotion on the other. On Salvific Grace: Here I'm completely behind you. It is the Grace of God and our own accepting of that grace through the excersizing of our free will (via our profession of faith and the deeds that bear witness to that faith) that saves us. Brains will not get a person into heaven. Neither will superpowerful emotions. Trust in God and faith in His Church: these are things which are infinately greater than any of our temporal gifts. [/quote] The nail just got hit right on the head, my point exactly! Pax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aloysius Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 there you go! Pax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the lumberjack Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 I'm pretty sure what was just said was: emotion: not so much that we are ruled by it...for the heart is wicked and deceitful, what man would know it? theology: logic is good, but not so much that we try to understand everything supernatural...we are not God and Salvific Grace...hey, thats God's biz...not mine. I just do what He tells me to. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ash Wednesday Posted June 7, 2004 Share Posted June 7, 2004 Theology and knowledge can help people grow in faith. God gave us brains, he wants us to use them. Some people have more gift for understanding and discussing theology than others, and God knows this. (I sure am not particularly gifted when it comes to grappling theology!) But using your own "intelligence" as a means of attaining heaven itself, that's more like a sin of pride, by fostering the idea that you can get to heaven through your own achievement instead of being open to the Holy Spirit and letting him work through you. Heaven isn't something that we do "by ourselves", and it isn't really something we can take credit for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cure of Ars Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 You mean there is no test to get into heaven? I'm joking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 While intelligence may not be the key to the pearly gates, to neglect to use what Our Lord has given us (namely reason or a rational soul, which is what distinguishes us from the animals) could definately result in damnation. I would not be so quick to dismiss the role reason and intelligence play in salvation. We can know truth (to some degree). It is upon our assent to that truth that we will be judged. I think some need to take a look at history ans read some of the great debates that took place between some of the greatest saints of the Church (St. Augustine vs St. Jerome, St. Thomas Aquinas vs St. Bonaventure, Scotus and so many others, St. Peter vs. St. Paul) before making a negative judgement of such exchange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cure of Ars Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 "And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge…but do not have love, I am nothing." (1 Cor 13:2) Love is where it is at. If you love God your going to want to know more about him and use all of you mental faculties to know Him. But without it all the knowledge in the world is not going to do you a lick of good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
popestpiusx Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 [quote name='Cure of Ars' date='Jun 8 2004, 12:26 AM'] "And if I have the gift of prophecy and comprehend all mysteries and all knowledge…but do not have love, I am nothing." (1 Cor 13:2) Love is where it is at. If you love God your going to want to know more about him and use all of you mental faculties to know Him. But without it all the knowledge in the world is not going to do you a lick of good. [/quote] Granted! But if you love Him you will desire to know Him to the best of your ability. To do any less is to neglect the gifts He gave you and therefore to love Him not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crusader1234 Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 ohhh boy. aloysius... 'if you dont have anything nice to say...' hahaha, just kidding. i think that you need a good balance of knowledge and spirituality, but at the same time, we shouldnt presume that knowing more is what always is best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cure of Ars Posted June 8, 2004 Share Posted June 8, 2004 [quote name='popestpiusx' date='Jun 7 2004, 11:54 PM'] Granted! But if you love Him you will desire to know Him to the best of your ability. To do any less is to neglect the gifts He gave you and therefore to love Him not. [/quote] Yep we are in agreement. God bless Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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