Missionaries Of Charity

[vee]

The one urge she really couldnt suppress was the desire to make money off the whole thing!

[beatitude]

5 hours ago, Era Might said:

Is that common in religious life? Just curious.

Wow, reading the reviews of the book make me look at the sisters in a different light. I wonder what passes through their minds, what they have to suppress. I feel bad for them.

This is quite patronising. If you're going to continue eating the sisters' food, at least do them the courtesy of not speculating on their lives on the basis of other people's Amazon reviews of one woman's account of her experiences. It reminds me of the time when I'd given up listening to music for Lent, and an atheist friend got all hot and bothered about it and said he wasn't going to listen to me talk about how I was 'depriving' myself because it was upsetting for him to hear how I make my life harder. He knew one person who had developed severe OCD that she attributed to Catholicism, and he persisted in thinking that I must be having a similar experience to her.

A former MC (Indwelling Trinity) has commented in the past that she was in the convent with the author of An Unquenchable Thirst and that the author appeared to have significant and quite unusual problems that emerged during her time with the sisters. I don't think it's fair to dismiss her as a money-grubber, but nor is it fair to assume that she is somehow typical of all the sisters.

[Era Might]

2 hours ago, beatitude said:

This is quite patronising. If you're going to continue eating the sisters' food, at least do them the courtesy of not speculating on their lives on the basis of other people's Amazon reviews of one woman's account of her experiences. It reminds me of the time when I'd given up listening to music for Lent, and an atheist friend got all hot and bothered about it and said he wasn't going to listen to me talk about how I was 'depriving' myself because it was upsetting for him to hear how I make my life harder. He knew one person who had developed severe OCD that she attributed to Catholicism, and he persisted in thinking that I must be having a similar experience to her.

A former MC (Indwelling Trinity) has commented in the past that she was in the convent with the author of An Unquenchable Thirst and that the author appeared to have significant and quite unusual problems that emerged during her time with the sisters. I don't think it's fair to dismiss her as a money-grubber, but nor is it fair to assume that she is somehow typical of all the sisters.

I speculate on everything based on everything. Of course, I know the religious personality quite well, from experience and from many sources. I don't assume that every monk is Thomas Merton, but I do expect to glean something about monks from Thomas Merton's experience. Anyway, I was interestred in the Amazon reviews because I've observed the MCs myself and wondered about what drives them, just as I wonder about what drives a bus driver, or a bridal shop clerk. People are people, the fuller picture we have the better. 

[beatitude]

1 hour ago, Era Might said:

I speculate on everything based on everything. Of course, I know the religious personality quite well, from experience and from many sources. I don't assume that every monk is Thomas Merton, but I do expect to glean something about monks from Thomas Merton's experience. Anyway, I was interestred in the Amazon reviews because I've observed the MCs myself and wondered about what drives them, just as I wonder about what drives a bus driver, or a bridal shop clerk. People are people, the fuller picture we have the better. 

I don't think there is any such thing as "the religious personality" or "the bus driver personality" and assuming that the sisters who feed you must be suppressing sexual feelings or having liaisons with priests and other nuns on the basis of one person's experience, causing you to "feel bad for them", seems crass as well as condescending and judgmental. You seem to be packaging it as some sort of intellectual exercise, but it's still condescension to put people in little boxes rather than trying to get to know them for themselves.

[Era Might]

30 minutes ago, beatitude said:

I don't think there is any such thing as "the religious personality" or "the bus driver personality" and assuming that the sisters who feed you must be suppressing sexual feelings or having liaisons with priests and other nuns on the basis of one person's experience, causing you to "feel bad for them", seems crass as well as condescending and judgmental. You seem to be packaging it as some sort of intellectual exercise, but it's still condescension to put people in little boxes rather than trying to get to know them for themselves.

Who said anything about them having liasons with priests? You're reading way too much into my comment. There certainly is a religious personality. To sublimate one's humanity into a particular way of life is rooted in personality. The life of St. Ignatius is a good example of that, he was a soldier and he created a soldier religious order. I used the word "repress," which you took sexually, but I wasn't even thinking primarily of sexual desire, though certainly that is a valid question, how celibate people repress sexuality...the question can be asked without lurid fantasizing, and one could even ask how married people repress sexuality (they certainly do). But a better word I could have used rather than repress is sublimate...MCs sublimate their humanity in a specific way that is not like other religious orders, just as St. Ignatius did. You say that we should get to know them for themselves, but apparently part of the criticism of the book is that MCs are discouraged from friendship. I don't know if that's true, but I do find it an interesting question in understanding this particular order. I haven't put anyone in a box...I'm not sure how you infer that from a small comment I made. As far as feeling bad for them, I feel for all humanity, every way of life has its shadows. I'm interested in the full picture, that's all. Someone mentioned a book, it was new information to me, it hasn't boxed anything in for me, simply gave new food for thought.

[Feankie]

Uh oh.............I can see this topic going on the fast track to Moderator action.  Not good.  No need to go on the offensive or the defensive.  There is more to life than posting on an Internet Phorum :))  That's why I've chosen to simply read and not reply for the last several months.  Getting myself worked up over posts from people I don't know and will probably never meet is useless and a waste of energy. Take a deep breath......relax......count to ten.....do it all over

[Sister Leticia]

EM: in your post (about 10 hours ago) you specifically quoted Katherine H's post warning everyone about likely sexual content in a book about the MCs, the author's evolving sense of her sexuality, breaking her vow of chastity with a priest and another sister etc.

You then asked: "Is that common in religious life? Just curious"

You then added: "Wow, reading the reviews of the book make me look at the sisters in a different light. I wonder what passes through their minds, what they have to suppress. I feel bad for them."

 

When I saw your question I wasn't sure if you were being flippant, thought you were being funny, wanted to be provocative or had simply decided to be offensive. If you thought you were being funny, it was in poor taste. Personally, I found the question offensive.

And - as a sideline - I'm not sure what you mean by "the religious personality". There isn't one, single, Catholic personality, or one, single, married person personality, and likewise, there isn't a single "religious personality". 

 

Anyway, this thread should be about the MCs - end of hijack. 

[Era Might]

6 minutes ago, Francis Clare said:

Uh oh.............I can see this topic going on the fast track to Moderator action.  Not good.  No need to go on the offensive or the defensive.  There is more to life than posting on an Internet Phorum :))  That's why I've chosen to simply read and not reply for the last several months.  Getting myself worked up over posts from people I don't know and will probably never meet is useless and a waste of energy. Take a deep breath......relax......count to ten.....do it all over

Sorry, it won't go off track. I resurrected this old thread to express my admiration for the MCs. There were some really good posts here that gave me a fuller perspective, including the book. I'm very interested in the lives of the saints, including their human side (very Ignatian of me, and I read an interesting biography of St. Ignatius by a Jesuit psychologist that looked at the human side of vocation, such as Ignatius's very masculine personality and how he sublimated that in his devotion to Mary and his interactions with women).

But no worries, no troubles here. Carry on with the thread.

7 minutes ago, Sister Leticia said:

And - as a sideline - I'm not sure what you mean by "the religious personality". There isn't one, single, Catholic personality, or one, single, married person personality, and likewise, there isn't a single "religious personality". 

None of the above, I asked a question because I was interested in the answer, and also because I like books and discussing them. But I forgot this is Vocation Station where most people come for information in discernment, not for discussion. So that was my fault 

Edited June 9, 2016 by Era Might

[vee]

Indwelling Trinity's comments on her experiences with this sister are on page 16 of the Carmelite customs thread if anyone is interested.  

I should explain myself.  I question her motives to money because it is one thing to write one's memories and experiences, but another to name famous groups and/or people in that writing.  I dont know her thoughts on that obviously but I do wonder about them.

One more thing I wonder is if the application and formation process with the MCs has changed at all since about 1977 when she entered.