4588686 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 That's nice. Talk to me when people come up with an elaborate mockery meant to defile your most sacred beliefs. I'm not sure if there's any equivalent comparison I could make for a non-believer. When your Church uses it's considerable political muscle to fight against marriage equality? When your religious service venerates a text that denounces gay sex and relationships in extremely vile terms. Maybe it's not obvious because Christianity has an extremely privileged place in American society but your religious texts and Tradition has a lot of things in it that are extremely offensive to non-Christians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I'm not dictating their expression. I'm saying that if they were actually serious about not being disrespectful to anyone's beliefs, they would avoid any doubt by substituting something other than a host, so there would be no confusion on that particular point. They've got every legal right to perform a black mass. Just like I've got a legal right to be wildly offended by it. So if they used a pancake then you would be totally cool and unoffended by the Black Mass? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaime Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 So if they used a pancake then you would be totally cool and unoffended by the Black Mass? I'm ok with them desecrating a pancake Not a blueberry pancake. Regular one only Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Socrates Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 A good day for freedom of expression. Heck, who do you think you're kidding? If instead of a "black mass," they hosted a speech by Mark Levin or some other conservative personality you don't like, you'd be screeching an entirely different tune. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 When your Church uses it's considerable political muscle to fight against marriage equality? When your religious service venerates a text that denounces gay sex and relationships in extremely vile terms. Maybe it's not obvious because Christianity has an extremely privileged place in American society but your religious texts and Tradition has a lot of things in it that are extremely offensive to non-Christians. And you've got every right to be offended by us. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but you seem to be implying that it doesn't make sense that I should or would be offended. So if they used a pancake then you would be totally cool and unoffended by the Black Mass? No, of course not. But I wouldn't care so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Heck, who do you think you're kidding? If instead of a "black mass," they hosted a speech by Mark Levin or some other conservative personality you don't like, you'd be screeching an entirely different tune. What tune would that be? UNC has a preacher who makes extremely sexist, homophobic comments along with other various right-wing conservative Christian rantings. I was also very vocal in my opposition to attempts to keep him from speaking on campus. I also defended the right of a Christian A Capella group to exclude a gay student (who is also a friend of mine) from their stupid organization. Sorry to disrupt your worldview but I actually believe in freedom of speech and expression. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 And you've got every right to be offended by us. Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but you seem to be implying that it doesn't make sense that I should or would be offended. No, of course not. But I wouldn't care so much. Fair enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I find it interesting that in this 'Black Mass', which essentially exists solely as a mockery of Catholicism, they do not even have the guts to go all the way and desecrate a real host. I am not sure what to make of this. Are they afraid of fallout from Christian groups? If so, why? Their raison d'etre is offending Christians, so why stop short? Is there some remnant of respect for the Church? Or fear? I doubt it, but is it possible? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I find it interesting that in this 'Black Mass', which essentially exists solely as a mockery of Catholicism, they do not even have the guts to go all the way and desecrate a real host. I am not sure what to make of this. Are they afraid of fallout from Christian groups? If so, why? Their raison d'etre is offending Christians, so why stop short? Is there some remnant of respect for the Church? Or fear? I doubt it, but is it possible? Maybe they actually don't want to be gratuitously offensive. I don't know much about satanism but looking at the googles it seems like this branch of modern satanism is protesting some values that Christianity has made dominate through the massive cultural hegemony its had for a millennium. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Christianity is, overwhelmingly, the dominate religion of the Western world. Yet conservative/reactionary Christians see themselves as a besieged minority. Conservatism is weird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChristinaTherese Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Poking around The Anchoress' blog, I found this: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/theanchoress/2006/04/01/the-gift-freely-given/ Although it's not specifically about this event, it does have to do with the concept of black masses, and I think it's worth a read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 harvard kids can't handle finals stress. ex: the marching band just came dressed in their underwear and played a song in the library (I work circulation overnight) last semester one of them called in a bomb threat. some of them apparently deal by running satanic masses. theys all wiggin out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nihil Obstat Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 Maybe they actually don't want to be gratuitously offensive. I don't know much about satanism but looking at the googles it seems like this branch of modern satanism is protesting some values that Christianity has made dominate through the massive cultural hegemony its had for a millennium. But is it not fair to say that modern atheistic Satanism stands specifically for being against Christianity and the influence of Christian values? If that is the case, the symbolism behind the idea of a black mass is only augmented by being as radically a-Christian as possible. I mean, it is only called Satanism inasmuch as it is a reaction to and against Christendom. The name itself is a provocation. If it was only about asserting values independent of Christian influence, they would not bother to call it Satanism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 But is it not fair to say that modern atheistic Satanism stands specifically for being against Christianity and the influence of Christian values? If that is the case, the symbolism behind the idea of a black mass is only augmented by being as radically a-Christian as possible. I mean, it is only called Satanism inasmuch as it is a reaction to and against Christendom. The name itself is a provocation. If it was only about asserting values independent of Christian influence, they would not bother to call it Satanism. Ok. But Christianity is the dominate religion in this culture. Christianity may not have the utter monopoly that it had 100 years ago but it is still the dominate force and almost everybody growing up in America is growing up in a Christian culture. So this is not a movement emerging external to Christianity but one emerging from within Christendom. So I don't know if it's intended to be a provocation so much as a reclaiming. Sort of like what Nietzsche did in some of his stuff. But I don't really know. I think satanism is silly. It's not a movement I have any particular familiarity with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luigi Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 I believe in Satan - the devil. There is no reason on Earth, in heaven, or in hell, to believe anything a Satanist says. They have no commitment to the Truth. I believe he is at work among us. I believe he has convinced any number of people to defend him in public forums. And they're so far gone, so they don't even see how satanic that is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WC4BaYgGJ8Y Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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