Anomaly Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Why do you have such a hard time believing that splinters of truth can exist outside of the Church? It doesn't take away from the fact that the Church holds the complete fullness, it simply means that by the natural law written on the hearts of man, they have stumbled across a sliver or two of the truth. Nobody likes living with a crowd for eternity. Ewwwww. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anomaly Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Why do you have such a hard time believing that splinters of truth can exist outside of the Church? It doesn't take away from the fact that the Church holds the complete fullness, it simply means that by the natural law written on the hearts of man, they have stumbled across a sliver or two of the truth. Nobody likes living with a crowd for eternity. Ewwwww. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Credo in Deum Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Brother, I don't mean to be offensive but I think you have a reading problem. I never said the Popes are not valid. Again, I never said they're not valid. And yet again, I am not a sedevacantist, Pope Francis is our current Holy Father and Vicar. So in short... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Brother, I don't mean to be offensive but I think you have a reading problem. I never said the Popes are not valid. Again, I never said they're not valid. And yet again, I am not a sedevacantist, Pope Francis is our current Holy Father and Vicar. You have questioned their validity very bluntly and sewed doubts unapologetically... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted May 6, 2014 Author Share Posted May 6, 2014 You have questioned their validity very bluntly and sewed doubts unapologetically... Where. Show quotes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted May 6, 2014 Author Share Posted May 6, 2014 So in short... We can't prove that, I prefer to believe these errors or unintentional. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 (edited) Not going to take the time to find quotes....It's stuff you've been saying that got you the phishy label on your first account and later got you banned.....I think I'm done for now....God bless and I have no ill will towards you......Just be careful you don't push people away from the Church.....Religion sucks enough as it is and what you are doing is really tiresome and makes me want to say forget it and just join a simple non denomational church.....Have a good one man.... Edited May 6, 2014 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted May 6, 2014 Author Share Posted May 6, 2014 Stay strong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Thanks brother you as well.....Peace be with you..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anastasia13 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Kissing something which contains fragments of God's Holy Word is not veneration, and it also doesn't deserve an explanation. Quran contains God's Holy Word? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Quran contains God's Holy Word? Fragments and slivers of truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 That's a very C.S. Lewis way of looking at it. I would agree with that. *dodges flying objects* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 The Holy Father simply said that atheists can be good people and we should quit demonizing them. If God chooses to grant anyone salvation, that's his prerogative. We've already talked about extra ecclesiam nulla salus. John 3:8 agrees with you. The Holy Spirit blows where he wills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Quran contains God's Holy Word? The Catechism says it's one of the three Abrahamic religions, and this is because it contains many fragments of the Old Testament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Basilisa Marie Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Peace be with you Basilisa, This is a very sensitive topic and I agree with you that humility and obedience are needed but even I read statement in Vatican II and find myself scratching my head. For example, in GS #12 it states, "According to the almost unanimous opinion of believers and unbelievers alike, all things on earth should be related to man as their center and crown." If someone had quoted this to me without the source and asked what my opinion on this would be from a Catholic perspective, I would have to say that it's blasphemous, but unfortunately it was not written in some secularist journal, rather it comes from a supposed Ecumenical Council. I struggle with examples like this, and I don't feel I'm just being "arrogant" and "disobedient." Man is not the center and crown of my life, Jesus is, and my conscience does not permit me to accept this statement even though it comes from a Council. I have not run off to the SSPX or Sedevacantists, and quite frankly I don't agree with them, but at the same time I honestly can't blame them. Who knows what the future generations will think of our times. Which is why you can't cherry pick from ANYTHING the Church produces! I know you agree with that, so why bother using that as an argument? It's no better than embracing scripture and shunning tradition, ala sola scriptura. All this sentence is saying is that human beings are the most important parts of creation, and that all of creation relates to humans. You could extrapolate this as 1) a reason why the activities of humans have an impact on creation and 2) why Jesus came to earth as a human, and not a dog or cow. It's neither fair nor honest to interpret a snippet of some Church document outside of its greater context. The fathers of the council fully admit that the apostolic constitutions from them are rather broad and are in need of much interpretation. But that doesn't mean they're wrong. Look, I struggle with some things too. It seems that the more you learn about the Church and Church history and theology and EVERYTHING the more opportunities you have to get stuck. I get it. And I get having empathy for those whose reaction to the struggle is to join up with people who are against the Church for whatever reason; I feel a similar sympathy for them and others like them. But your knee jerk reaction seems to be to blame the Church, the bishops, and the popes before looking to your own limitations. It's not humble. I'm not a pillar of humility either, I snarl and fight before I think like the best of them. And from some of what you've posted, many could extrapolate that the Church HAS abandoned the faithful. And I know that's not what you want. Maybe it might work better if you instead framed your struggles and objections within your own personal perspective. Instead of stating that this is the greatest crisis the Church has ever faced and terrible things are terrible, what if you got to the root of the issue? Went and picked out actual passages or whole documents that you struggle with, so we could all debate their meaning? I think I've seen you do that a few times before. Specifics are usually much more helpful than generalizations. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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