Are You Of Jesuit Spirituality?, Faithful Congregations Of This Spirit

[ruso]

In Spain there are some that became greats, after all, the Jesuits were born here, but several, like many Jesuit priests, lost their charisma by "modernity", 

 

Examples as the Company of Mary, originating in France 400 years ago, they were so united to the Jesuits, who called themselves in this way, why Jesuits are the Company of Jesus.

 

 

so united to the Jesuits, that imitated his example, they are now "modernized".

 

 

http://www.lestonnac-odn.org/en

 

I can add more examples, but I want to talk about congregations that if have remained faithful.

 

Company of the Saviour, foundation of 1952, his Founder Mother, not allowed to deviate, supported by faithful Jesuits, this is the result today.

 

 

They have presence in USA, http://ciasalvador.org/casas/

 

http://ciasalvador.org/

 

I'll post more. if anyone knows others, i appreciate that put   :like:

[Egeria]

These sort of insinuations about "modernism" - presumably because the sisters aren't habited - are really, really tiresome. Jesuits were never intended to be monks in the first place!

[ruso]

These sort of insinuations about "modernism" - presumably because the sisters aren't habited - are really, really tiresome. Jesuits were never intended to be monks in the first place!

 

When you see several sisters prefer to be social workers, that religious sisters, that community life is gone, sisters in the missions, say participating in pagan festivals such as La Pachamama and see that several of them defend feminist ideology, something is wrong.

 

I have been very mild, saying "they have been modernized".

[Sister Marie]

If they are a community with constitutions that have been accepted by the Church, they are religious. What is wrong wih an apostolate in social work? Can I not be a teacher and a religious at the same time? There is nothing unfaithful about chapters of affairs changing constitutions, the church approving those changes, and the sisters living in accordance with these approved norms. That's actually the definition of being faithful.

If the church has approved their constitutions, and you don't approve of their constitutions, I would say you are on the wrong side of the fence.

[ruso]

If they are a community with constitutions that have been accepted by the Church, they are religious. What is wrong wih an apostolate in social work? Can I not be a teacher and a religious at the same time? There is nothing unfaithful about chapters of affairs changing constitutions, the church approving those changes, and the sisters living in accordance with these approved norms. That's actually the definition of being faithful.

If the church has approved their constitutions, and you don't approve of their constitutions, I would say you are on the wrong side of the fence.

 

You can not give priority to social work on religious life, I have seen friars/sisters who have no community life, the daily common prayer is voluntary, living in flats and each sister in your own way, religious life so ceases to making sense.

 

Also several, often speak against the doctrine of the Church. That should be a friar/sister?

[Nunsuch]

I agree with Sister Marie. I would prefer to trust the Church than people who post critically on an internet forum about "modernism."  If the constitution is approved, and they are in good standing, then the community is ok. On what basis do you judge the spirituality, orthodoxy and souls of people you do not know?  This is quite inappropriate. You may not prefer their way of living out their call, which is fine. Don't join the community. But please don't sweepingly criticize those who have answered the call to serve God through an approved community and its charism.

 

This seems to give new meaning to the saying: "More Catholic than the Pope...."

[cmaD2006]

A reminder -- no debating in Vocation Station ... if there is a desire to debate modern vs. traditional communities please take it to debate table.  No need to start arguing about a faithfulness of a community; it really isn't fair to the community itself especially from the outside.

[Era Might]

Isn't part of the Jesuit charism to be at home wherever you are...if you are in rich circumstances, grow where you are planted, in poor, grow where you are planted, etc. In other words, detachment in whatever "environment" the Society sends you into. That's probably why Jesuits are more comfortable adapting to modern ways of dressing and relating.

[John Ryan]

Ignatian Spirituality strives to find God in All Things. God is to be found in the world and in our daily lives, not divorced from it. The truth of their faith is proved by their actions, not by whether or not they wear a habit.

[Sister Marie]

You can not give priority to social work on religious life, I have seen friars/sisters who have no community life, the daily common prayer is voluntary, living in flats and each sister in your own way, religious life so ceases to making sense.

 

Also several, often speak against the doctrine of the Church. That should be a friar/sister?

 

Can the work a religious does be so permeated by their religious calling that the two are inseparable?  I would answer yes.  We live in a world that is different than it was fifty years ago and needs us in ways it didn't need us fifty years ago.  The sisters with whom I live spent far less time in school than I do because, generally speaking, the children they taught had stable homes and religious upbringing.  Now, most of the children I teach live in total chaos and are exposed to drugs, alcohol, abuse, and general neglect.  They need me more and it is in fidelity that I serve them.  I have to spend more time in my apostolate than the sisters who went before me did.  Answering the needs of God's people is never a bad action.

 

Have you ever lived in religious life?  How do you know whether or not it "makes sense" if you are neither the congregation in the vatican who approves constitutions nor a religious?  It seems you are unqualified to make the statements you make.

 

Again, the issues of community, prayer, and housing are determined by the constitutions of a community which are modified by the chapter and approved by the Church... as long as the Church approves them, they make sense.  It doesn't really matter if it is your preference, my preference, or anyone else's preference.  

 

I'm sorry if this seems like I'm making it into a debate.  I only mean to clarify and answer what was written to me.

 

Edited to add - You are aware our current Holy Father is a Jesuit, right?

Edited May 3, 2014 by Sister Marie

[Antigonos]

I believe the Jesuits were always amenable to adaptation -- didn't the 17th century Jesuits in China dress deliberately as mandarins since that was something the Chinese could understand and respect?

[AugustineA]

I believe the Jesuits were always amenable to adaptation -- didn't the 17th century Jesuits in China dress deliberately as mandarins since that was something the Chinese could understand and respect?

 

Woahh.. I have been meaning to post something about this all day for some weird reason. Yeah, they were heavily criticized by the Dominicans and Franciscans for participating in Confucian ceremonies. I figured if anyone is going to really embrace these sorts of changes it would be the Jesuits.

 

That being said, while I agree that so long as they have the permission of the Church they are well.. permissible, the more traditional orders do tend to be thriving, or at least drawing more young people. 

 

If I ever enter religious life I want a robust rule, a proper habit, and a matching beard. :D God bless all the little old ladies in social work and medicine that live in their own flats. They're saving alot of lives. 

[Sister Marie]

That being said, while I agree that so long as they have the permission of the Church they are well.. permissible, the more traditional orders do tend to be thriving, or at least drawing more young people. 

 

If I ever enter religious life I want a robust rule, a proper habit, and a matching beard. :D God bless all the little old ladies in social work and medicine that live in their own flats. They're saving alot of lives. 

 

It's interesting when we are talking about what we want in religious life because of what a mystery God's call really is.  Many of us, in the spirit of wanting to give God all, imagine what we think that "all" must look like.  It certainly seems like giving "all" is most evident in the form of religious life that is more externally restrictive, or rigorous, or different from the social norm.  Visually, from the outside, it certainly seems like the very formal prayer life, common life, and religious garb point to a more radical way of giving "all."  However, giving all consists only in following God's will where God calls you.  Often the "all" God asks us to give includes our expectations and wants in religious life.  In this sense, each rule or constitution is robust in its own way and each member gives his or her all in a self-sacrificing manner.  

 

For one giving all might look like the very restrictive or externally rigorous religious life - especially someone who is more of a free-spirit.  This would certainly be more difficult for that person.  Likewise, giving "all" for the person who values security, stability, and clear expectations might be done more fully in a community that calls the person to discern with others, make decisions together, and live in circumstances that can change according to ministry and community needs.  

 

I would have thought early in my discernment of religious life along the lines of what you wrote above but the way to grow in holiness is to allow God to stretch us by giving God our "all."  I have been so blessed that God somehow kept me out of the way of his plan so that I ended up where I did.  I can't imagine another place where I could give my "all" to God.  Objectively, you wouldn't call my community's constitutions especially rigorous, but the daily living of it in my person certainly is.  It has challenged me, changed me, encouraged me, and provided me with the framework to give God my "all."  

 

I was glad to read your sense of gratitude for the good work of many sisters.  If I might dare to offer you a personal challenge... not to be answered here but for yourself... would you call the sisters in a more traditional community "little old ladies?"  Maybe you would and meant no offense by it... maybe you meant it affectionately... but maybe it's something else, subconsciously, that makes them "little old ladies" instead of "sisters" in your mind.  If it's the latter, it might be something to spend some time thinking and praying about.  If you enter religious life, you will meet religious you admire and religious you don't admire... yet they will still be brother or sister to you regardless... you don't want to forget that about them.

[saintalis]

The Church exists for the salvation of souls.  Any religious order that does not have this as their  primary purpose/objective has lost sight of their mission, habit or no habit.  The Church is not here to build Utopia on earth.  In the past some religious orders, priests, bishops, etc. have given in to the lure of humanism wherein temporal needs of humanity became more important than spiritual needs.  The professing of Christ and his message was second if it was done at all.  

 

Yes, the world has changed, it will continue to change but the soul of man has not and will not change. Man needs Christ in his soul and that is the mission of the Church...to bring Christ to the world...habit or no habit.  

[petitpèlerin]

When Jesuits are good, they're very good. The best two religious men I know had experiences with good Jesuits that were crucial in their discernment of religious life. I don't know exactly which communities these were but one was in Europe and one was in Asia.