Winchester Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 ...one example would be despair over past choices & actions...being unwilling to forgive themselves. What I'm trying to say is that the reasons behind someone commiting suicide can be many, but overidentification with someone or something &the loss of it will definitely contribute to it. My apologies if this is muddled...I'm really tired. You weren't muddled, I just saw an oversimplification being used to justify a theory of development that I see as inadequate. Also, you're turning correlation into causation. It might well be that the causes of suicide elicit "over-identification" with certain roles. The loss of a role might then provide the justification for suicide that someone desired. You are looking at the surface of a pond and using it to determine what lies at the bottom. This might be possible, but it requires understanding all the interaction between them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Isn't that the guy who thought the Immaculate Conception was a bad theory? So you agree with me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selah Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Me and St. Aquinas used to not get along so well. We cool now. And not just because that one time I forgot to study for a test and asked him for help and somehow got a perfect score. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reminiscere Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 Why isn't this in the Debate Table yet? And why hasn't anyone brought up the Social Reign? #Surprised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brandelynmarie Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 You weren't muddled, I just saw an oversimplification being used to justify a theory of development that I see as inadequate. Also, you're turning correlation into causation. It might well be that the causes of suicide elicit "over-identification" with certain roles. The loss of a role might then provide the justification for suicide that someone desired. You are looking at the surface of a pond and using it to determine what lies at the bottom. This might be possible, but it requires understanding all the interaction between them. I was oversimplyfing on purpose to make the point that overidentification & loss of sense of self is possible. :) And I agree, correlation does not always equal causation. Much food for thought here...in the strangest of threads, might I add! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted May 3, 2014 Share Posted May 3, 2014 I was oversimplyfing on purpose to make the point that overidentification & loss of sense of self is possible. :) And I agree, correlation does not always equal causation. Much food for thought here...in the strangest of threads, might I add! I took it as verification of the theory. I use "theory" here in the completely non-scientific sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4588686 Posted May 9, 2014 Author Share Posted May 9, 2014 It's not so different. the key difference in the American case is the degree to which the system there was explicitly built around the idea that the law should be able to destroy itself. Most systems are not built around an idea at all. Most modern constitutional systems are built on ideas like "freedom" or "justice." It's not just a question of amendment. Many constitutional systems emphasize precedent and respect for legal tradition. There is some of that in American judicial thought as well but it is markedly circumscribed. Amendment is too weak a description for what the American legal system was designed to do. It was explicitly designed to be internally conflicted and unstable. It came with a giant red self-destruct button built in. This was a radical idea at the time and in many ways it still is. To this day in America most people want their legal system to be "right" and if you suggest to them that the whole goal of the American legal system is to never arrive at getting it "right," they will practically croutons their pantaloons and try to fight you. People consider that idea an existential threat to them personally - and that is one important reason very few individuals ever reach stage 5. Continuity of legal tradition is a huge aspect of the legal system in America. With all due respect, this is just getting silly. The fundamental components of the American system are extremely difficult to revise. And that difficulty was purposeful. Even passing basic legislation, much less amending the constitution, was explicitly designed to be a difficult and arduous process. That's why we have a bicameral legislature and an executive and a judicial branch. Most modern constitutional systems are built on ideas like "freedom" or "justice." Ummm.... "We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America" So far your argument that the American constitutional system is literally a meta-cognative machine and the most developmentally advanced system in the world boils down to Thomas Jefferson's (who was not a part of the constitutional convention) quote about revolutions being a good thing and that America's constitution, like a lot of constitutions, has an amendment process. Was the amendment process to a written constitution an advanced and relatively novel thing in 18th century Europe? Yes. Sure was. Is it still super novel? Does this turn the system into a meta-cognative machine? Does this make America's system developmentally the most advanced in the world? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted May 9, 2014 Share Posted May 9, 2014 you're wiping the floor with me tonight Hasan. but only because i am Allowing It. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Winchester Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 The AoC were better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MIKolbe Posted May 12, 2014 Share Posted May 12, 2014 your face was better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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