Nihil Obstat Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 The thing that gets me the most is why a gay person would want to have biological children so badly. I mean, if you love another person it really shouldn't matter if you can have children together, so what is this? Just fulfilling a base impulse? Why? Does everybody with a set of gentilia need to have babies for crying out? If you do not mind me asking, what is your current state in life? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitamin Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 If you do not mind me asking, what is your current state in life? Single. Not planning on staying that way, but not desperately looking either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I don't think you fully understand what it means to "love someone the most" if you think it works that way. You don't think sexual attraction is integral to most romantic relationships. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted May 1, 2014 Author Share Posted May 1, 2014 You don't think sexual attraction is integral to most romantic relationships. Interesting. One can experience true love for another without sexual attraction. We are more than our sexuality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 that's true. But its also true that sexual attraction is integral to most romantic relationships. A person who is sexually attracted to one person is most likely going to be romantically attracted to that person over and above someone they are not sexually attracted to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitamin Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 You don't think sexual attraction is integral to most romantic relationships. Interesting. No, I don't think you can love someone the most, then leave that person to find someone else you love the most, just because the second can give you babies. What this person loves the most is the idea of babies, not another person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 No, I don't think you can love someone the most, then leave that person to find someone else you love the most, just because the second can give you babies. What this person loves the most is the idea of babies, not another person. I think you are making a caricature of my position. All I'm saying is that people tend to fall in love with people they are sexually attracted to. I don't think that idea is debatable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vitamin Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 I think you are making a caricature of my position. All I'm saying is that people tend to fall in love with people they are sexually attracted to. I don't think that idea is debatable. So you don't think a gay person will leave a partner to have children? I seem to recall you referring to that. I don't know. It still seems incredibly artificial, the whole thing. It's an odd thing to do just to live someone else's dream. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lilllabettt Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 So you don't think a gay person will leave a partner to have children? I seem to recall you referring to that. No. I think if a gay person ever wanted to choose to receive whatever hypothetical therapy would be available to ethically alter their sexual orientation that would imply something about their satisfaction with their current homosexual relationships quite apart from a desire to have children. On the other hand, I can say this: I personally cannot have children. Long illness when I was younger ruined my equipment. I have been dumped/rejected on account of that, since I am still in my twenties and fertility is sort of initially assumed. But it is not something I hold against the other person, because it is a legitimate desire that people have. I personally never felt particularly strongly about it either way. But many people do, and there is nothing wrong with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedictus Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 The thing that gets me the most is why a gay person would want to have biological children so badly. I mean, if you love another person it really shouldn't matter if you can have children together, so what is this? Just fulfilling a base impulse? Why? Does everybody with a set of gentilia need to have babies for crying out? I agree with you. I don't think this is a major driving issue personally for many people. I was just exploring some issues that were raised. Of course I imagine for many people, especially those getting married it is a consideration. But the Gay friends I have seem to think fairly similar to priest friends I know - that is that it's something they thought about (having children around) but it isn't something their situation lends easily possible and they don't endlessly agonize about it. If anything, they seem more open to the idea of fostering and adoption to help those who are already in need rather than a personal drive for biological children. I know of two heterosexual married couples who can't have children, One, as far as I know, knew about this before they got married. They both live with the reality and aren't seeking to divorce and be with someone else. I also know of one couple who aren't interested in having children, even though they can, for various reasons. The trend, if the stats on changing family units are anything to go by, seems to show people marrying later and having less children, if any. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedictus Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 No. I think if a gay person ever wanted to choose to receive whatever hypothetical therapy would be available to ethically alter their sexual orientation that would imply something about their satisfaction with their current homosexual relationships quite apart from a desire to have children. I would suggest it would imply something about the society and culture they live and grew up with, not necessarily their relationship or any desire to have children. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marigold Posted May 1, 2014 Share Posted May 1, 2014 Boom.. Orthodox vid on the matter as well. Hope some of you all enjoy it. Just going to awkwardly hop in here! This is actually an Orthodox priest interviewing an evangelical guy about a book the evangelical has written. The book seems to be about new-old ways of being faithful to the scriptures and tradition of the Church (he includes everybody, but otherwise seems to mean that in a pretty solid sense) as gay Christians. Most interesting to me in their conversation was the mention of monasticism and how celibacy historically has not been attempted alone - just as marriage has not been attempted alone but in the company of the rest of the Church (hence public vows etc.). He says that Christians have recently put a lot of work and resources into supporting marriage - wouldn't it be great if we now also worked to make support and resources available for the celibate life? I agree with him that we ought to make our parishes places where celibacy is a possibility. Thanks for posting the video! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perigrina Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I hope that people don't mind if I revive this thread. I just watched the movie linked in the OP a few days ago and have been wanting to discuss it. I thought it was very good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhuturePriest Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I hope that people don't mind if I revive this thread. I just watched the movie linked in the OP a few days ago and have been wanting to discuss it. I thought it was very good. Anything with Chris Stefanick and Jason Evert is good. ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Perigrina Posted May 18, 2014 Share Posted May 18, 2014 I saw the appeal to emotions as a strength of the movie. It gave a human face to the issue and could help develop compassion in those who are insensitive to the difficulties of people with SSA. Catholic teaching includes both the call to chastity for those with SSA as well as the call to compassion and sensitivity towards them for those who do not have SSA. I liked how the film addressed both these aspects of Church teaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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