AugustineA Posted April 29, 2014 Author Share Posted April 29, 2014 Ehh.. I've seen some dubious things with the imprimatur. Would not pray other religions prayers ever.. Personally. Not sure how we can be the salt and light of the earth while acting like everyone else lol. Don't let these things put you off Mortify. Just pray and stay strong and loyal to the Church. Do you have any FSSP parishes close to you? :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) Ehh.. I've seen some dubious things with the imprimatur. Would not pray other religions prayers ever.. Personally. Not sure how we can be the salt and light of the earth while acting like everyone else lol. Don't let these things put you off Mortify. Just pray and stay strong and loyal to the Church. Do you have any FSSP parishes close to you? :) I should have clarified, the prayers of the other religions are all prayers that reflect Catholic belief, or are those tiny bits of truth that other religions hold. They are quite beautiful prayers. You wouldn't know they belonged to another religion unless specifically told. Edited April 29, 2014 by tardis ad astra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AugustineA Posted April 29, 2014 Author Share Posted April 29, 2014 Gotcha. I've seen Bahai books like that. Sry cannot quote your posts on my cell phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) Gotcha. I've seen Bahai books like that. Sry cannot quote your posts on my cell phone. I definitely wouldn't pray other religions prayers that are to multiple gods, false gods, etc. But I do think there is a place in prayer for the words of others, regardless of their religion, if they are addressing the True and Living God. Edited April 29, 2014 by tardis ad astra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I definitely wouldn't pray other religions prayers that are to multiple gods, false gods, etc. But I do think there is a place in prayer for the words of others, regardless of their religion, if they are addressing the True and Living God. "The sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons, not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons." 1 Corinthians 10:20 "For all the gods of the Gentiles are devils" Psalm 96:5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 "The sacrifices of pagans are offered to demons,[/size] not to God, and I do not want you to be participants with demons."[/size]1 Corinthians 10:20[/size] "[/size]For all the gods of the Gentiles are devils"[/size]Psalm 96:5[/size] [/size] "The Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is true and holy in these religions. She has a high regard for the manner of life and conduct, the precepts and doctrines which, although differing in many ways from her own teaching, nevertheless often reflect a ray of that truth which enlightens all men" (Nostra aetate, n. 2) "The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life." CCC 843 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 "The Catholic Church rejects nothing of what is true and holy in these religions. She has a high regard for the manner of life and conduct, the precepts and doctrines which, although differing in many ways from her own teaching, nevertheless often reflect a ray of that truth which enlightens all men" (Nostra aetate, n. 2) "The Catholic Church recognizes in other religions that search, among shadows and images, for the God who is unknown yet near since he gives life and breath and all things and wants all men to be saved. Thus, the Church considers all goodness and truth found in these religions as "a preparation for the Gospel and given by him who enlightens all men that they may at length have life." CCC 843 So you think these vague ecumenically inspired quotes justify Catholic participation in non-Catholic ceremonies? Why don't you look up the plethora of quotes from various councils on this matter. Even the 1917 Code of Canon law explicitly forbids Catholic participation in non-Catholic services (#1258) and that doing so makes one suspect of heresy (#2316). But hey, new spring time is here and anything goes, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 So you think these vague ecumenically inspired quotes justify Catholic participation in non-Catholic ceremonies? Why don't you look up the plethora of quotes from various councils on this matter. Even the 1917 Code of Canon law explicitly forbids Catholic participation in non-Catholic services (#1258) and that doing so makes one suspect of heresy (#2316). But hey, new spring time is here and anything goes, right? I never said that. The Church recognizes that although the Truth subsists in the Catholic Church, there are rays of truth in other religions. I'm just pointing that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AugustineA Posted April 29, 2014 Author Share Posted April 29, 2014 St. Paul touched on this also. He said that the nameless God the Greeks worshipped was a precursor to the true faith. But he also condemned pagan worship and didn't pray with them. I take that tact. I think it's very possible these days to talk ourselves into corners until what is wrong is right and right wrong, especially with obscure language. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 (edited) St. Paul touched on this also. He said that the nameless God the Greeks worshipped was a precursor to the true faith. But he also condemned pagan worship and didn't pray with them. I take that tact. I think it's very possible these days to talk ourselves into corners until what is wrong is right and right wrong, especially with obscure language. I think the overall thing to remember is that while the Catholic Church holds the Truth, humans are constantly searching for God and will find varying amounts of truth outside of the Church. While we want everyone to be in the Church, people can believe other things in good faith and still be good people. We must remember that the natural law is written in each of our hearts and so it is possible to be a good person outside of the Church. That being said, only the Catholic Church holds the fullness of the Truth. Period. Edited April 29, 2014 by tardis ad astra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 That being said, only the Catholic Church holds the fullness of the Truth. Period. How much truth does one need to hold in order to be saved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedictus Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I think the process was speeded up too quickly. I can't help but see the canonizations as being a calculated political act. Both Popes appeal to different ends of the church, and the overlaps therein. Together they seem to set the tone desired by the Vatican, or maybe Pope Francis in particular, of a church rooted in theology and tradition but also one that is open to renewal, compassion and new inspiration. But it downplays the criticisms wedged against both of them. It's unwise, I think, to make someone a saint when they still have an immediate living memory/impact. The role John Paul ll played in dealing with abuse claims, his dealings with interreligious dialologue (which I think went too far), and his failure to deal with some liturgical abuses (and questionable appointments) are still being played out. If new negative things now come to light it will drag the church credibility into the ground. There were good reasons why the church usually allowed a generation to die off before making anyone a saint. This speeded process may come back to haunt them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 One only need give one name, Marcial Maciel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benedictus Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 I never said that. The Church recognizes that although the Truth subsists in the Catholic Church, there are rays of truth in other religions. I'm just pointing that out. I agree with Tardis. The crunch of the issue is that the Gospel is 'Good News'. You can only witness to people through being seen, acting and then developing a relationship with people. People come to the truth through seeing the good it upholds, expresses, and brings to life. I don't see any problem receiving a blessing or attending with other religions a service. I'd go to their houses for dinner also, why not? Being present with others and recognising the good therein doesn't negate one's own beliefs, or the power they have. I think God wants a relationship with people (and always has) and we are also inclined towards God/worship in some form. Our response to Gods love maybe inadequate or corrupted. But I don't believe God would turn his back on a whole country, continent or period of time in history because they weren't Catholic (or any other form of Christianity). I'm sure he would have sent them many different cultures graces and truths over time. But, of course, I believe the fullness of Gods love is expressed and completed through Christ. Where i think some go wrong is by seeming to give certain traditions, texts or people an excess of regard which can confuse people regarding what is truth or worthwhile in life. The idea that compassion (or apathy) should lead us to encourage people to select religions or traditions like some impartial buffet, or worse say all the religions have the same God (or that God doesn't care about their religious/ spiritual choices) I think is a great heresy. I'm sure Pope John Paul ll was motivated by respect and love when he kissed the Koran, and similar things.. But did any Muslim cleric kiss the Bible back in equal token? I don't believe they did. But the image of the Pope kissing the Koran was used to undermine and persecute Catholics in Islamic countries afterwards. Sometimes good intentions have complicated, and negative, consequences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted April 30, 2014 Share Posted April 30, 2014 (edited) How much truth does one need to hold in order to be saved?If we confess our belief in the Lord Jesus Christ, we are saved through Him (Romans 10:9-10). We have been crucified with Him and are granted new life through him (Galatians 2:20), being born of water and the spirit (John 3:5). However, we don't know whether God saves those outside of the Church, and if he does, why. We cannot judge and condemn anyone to hell lest we be judged ourselves (Matthew 7:1). The only way to be saved for sure is through the faith taught by the Catholic Church. That doesn't guarantee saving (Philippians 2:12), and we don't know who God chooses to save outside the Church, as we are also judged by our works (Ecclesiastes 12:14, Romans 2:6). Edited April 30, 2014 by tardis ad astra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now