Christians Being Persecuted/discriminated Against In The Usa

[Lilllabettt]

So ill ask again, how do you know? How do you know peoples intentions and situations?
But I unerstand how hard it is to think freely after being spoon fed your whole life. I was there. I was the queen of judgment! Running around gloating wih my friends how horrible and stupid everyone was.

 

 

I can hear your voice breaking. lol.

Maybe you can look up Kohlberg's principles of moral reasoning. 

Intentions and situations do not alter the application of universal ethical principles. 

 

p.s. My family is not religious and I did not grow up in a religious household.

Shall I assume you did?

Do you feel you were spoon fed, and have been swallowing crap most of your life?

Reaction formation?

[4588686]

 

Contraception is an effort to have sex with someone while foreclosing one dimension of that person's future possibilities (the possibility that they might conceive a child with you.) Contraceptive sex is by its very nature an act of objectification. 

 

 

 

Literally every interaction that you have with somebody forecloses some set of possibilities for that individual.  You're provided zero argument of how you get from 'x' forecloses a set of possibilities for somebody to 'x' objectifies that individual.  

[4588686]

For example, by responding to your post I foreclosed a potential set of future possibilities where you went your entire life without reading that specific rebuttal to your argument.  

[Maggyie]

Yes Hassn but you weren't trying to have sex with Lilllabettt's post.

OR WERE YOU

[Ice_nine]

Obviously they have every intention of creating a baby with eachother but similar to literally every single couple in the world, they are waiting for the right time.
 

 

I hereby decree the following: never use the word "literally" again until you literally understand the meaning of the word or I will figuratively punch that dancing llama in the face.

[Maggyie]

Also just a note: when it's pointed out that contraception results in objectification, it doesn't mean:

1) ooooo you're a bad person
2) ooooo you're going to hell
3) ooooo you don't love your partner
4) it doesn't matter if you'll die or go in the poor house! Have babies
5) your reasons for using it are no good
6) you don't "qualify" for an "exception."

It means that contraception results in objectification. The end.

[CrossCuT]

So they arent bad people for objectifying? In fact, theres seemingly nothing wrong with it at all?

So in your context, people who use contraception:

Are good people
Still can go to heaven
Love their partner
Still want to have babies
Have legit reasons to use it


Hot dog literally

Edited May 8, 2014 by CrossCuT

[Maggyie]

So they arent bad people for objectifying? In fact, theres seemingly nothing wrong with it at all?

So in your context, people who use contraception:

Are good people
Still can go to heaven
Love their partner
Still want to have babies
Have legit reasons to use it


Hot dog literally

Dude I didn't say those things either. I said the fact that contraception = objectification is not the cliff notes version of saying all those negative things.

[4588686]

Yes Hassn but you weren't trying to have sex with Lilllabettt's post.

OR WERE YOU

:unsure:

[Credo in Deum]

Hot dog literally

[Lilllabettt]

srry if you were interested in "doing" my posts Hassan, for I have already taken a lover

[Anastasia13]

Also just a note: when it's pointed out that contraception results in objectification, it doesn't mean:

1) ooooo you're a bad person
2) ooooo you're going to hell
3) ooooo you don't love your partner
4) it doesn't matter if you'll die or go in the poor house! Have babies
5) your reasons for using it are no good
6) you don't "qualify" for an "exception."

It means that contraception results in objectification. The end.

 

It is not true that objectifying is (though not necessarily the defining trait of a relationship) an act in contradiction to loving and as a violation of the second greatest commandment is sinning?

Edited May 8, 2014 by Light and Truth

[CrossCuT]

I guess I would like some further clarification from Maggie's view. Lillla seems to claim that the nature of contraception is synonymous with objectification and objectification means X, Y, Z. 

But Maggie is saying that objectification doenst necessarily mean X, Y, Z. Im just wondering if it is then a circumstantial thing then (which is what I lean towards.)

 

I have a really really really hard time  believing that a committed, married couple (whether Catholic or not) are guilty of objectification based on the ONLY variable of contraception. By variable I mean the only thing different between them and a loving catholic couple who use NFP. 

 

When the state of the relationship, the reasons, and circumstances are identical, I do not believe that the use of contraception is objectifying. 

 

I also detest the idea that Catholics can accuse couples of these horrible crimes simply by the extremely superficial observation of contraceptive use. I find that this attitude is a very very deep rooted fault that Catholics need to deal with. How do these thoughts color our disposition? How do these thoughts color our treatment of others? Our opinions of others?

[Lilllabettt]

I guess I would like some further clarification from Maggie's view. Lillla seems to claim that the nature of contraception is synonymous with objectification and objectification means X, Y, Z. 

But Maggie is saying that objectification doenst necessarily mean X, Y, Z. Im just wondering if it is then a circumstantial thing then (which is what I lean towards.)

 

I have a really really really hard time  believing that a committed, married couple (whether Catholic or not) are guilty of objectification based on the ONLY variable of contraception. By variable I mean the only thing different between them and a loving catholic couple who use NFP. 

 

When the state of the relationship, the reasons, and circumstances are identical, I do not believe that the use of contraception is objectifying. 

 

I also detest the idea that Catholics can accuse couples of these horrible crimes simply by the extremely superficial observation of contraceptive use. I find that this attitude is a very very deep rooted fault that Catholics need to deal with. How do these thoughts color our disposition? How do these thoughts color our treatment of others? Our opinions of others?

 

Objectification is a sin. It's wrong.

Contraception is a sin. It's wrong.

Being a sinner does not mean you are a "bad person", don't love your partner, are going to hell, or anything else.  

Or do you think Christianity teaches that it means those things?

This is basic to Christian religion CrossCuT

But maybe you missed the spoon feeding the day they were dishing out that lesson.

People sin because they are weak, not because they are evil.

What does it say about you, if you can't accept the idea that people can be wrong, people can choose sin, and yet be good people?

Yikes.
What would happen if the world stopped trying to deny that people are wrong and weak and instead were brave and compassionate enough to accept people in spite of the reality that they are wrong and weak?

[CrossCuT]

But how do you know they are objectifying each other? Thats what Im asking. I dont believe that contraception is an automatic entry into the objectification fast lane. I think its very very circumstantial.

 

And if you honestly believe all that you just said about people simply being weak and not evil, then you should watch the ish that spews from your mouth on these topics. You practice the judgment virtue to an extent that makes you come off as a gigantic bitch. Practice some Christian charity in these areas that you have a hard time with and say a prayer to the Blessed mother to help you avoid the thoughts that lead you to calling people who use contraception as misogynistic neanderthals. These thoughts will color your actions and how you treat people.

 

Do I think objectification happens? Oh yes. More often than not. Do I think its because of contraception in the sense that its presence is a light switch you can turn off and on...no. I think people can be objectifying without contraception. If your intention is to use someone for sex, then it will be objectification with or without contraception.