Popes And Liturgies

[Fidei Defensor]

That is my entire point though. Validity is an insultingly low hurdle. Liturgical minimalism does not do us good as a Church. We should not consider the Liturgy as being done 'good enough' simply because it was valid and the priest did not preach heresy. That view does not respect the Church's liturgical heritage, or the liturgy's venerated position in the Faith.

I agree with you. I'm just saying, because we don't live in a perfect world, that those who aren't blessed with the most beautiful liturgies in the world can still rest assured that they are receiving Jesus (all the while praying to fix the liturgies they are unfortunate to have to attend.)

[Nihil Obstat]

I agree with you. I'm just saying, because we don't live in a perfect world, that those who aren't blessed with the most beautiful liturgies in the world can still rest assured that they are receiving Jesus (all the while praying to fix the liturgies they are unfortunate to have to attend.)

People use that as an excuse though, or as a stick with which to beat people who really do care about the Liturgy. You see why we have to be careful.

[Fidei Defensor]

People use that as an excuse though, or as a stick with which to beat people who really do care about the Liturgy. You see why we have to be careful.

Of course.

[AugustineA]

Tardis... you better be watching the canonization. 

[Fidei Defensor]

Tardis... you better be watching the canonization. 

I was, I was!

[ithinkjesusiscool]

If it is beautiful it is intelectual. Gregorian chant is, according to me and other people, very meditative and intellectual.

What can you say about Cardinal Bergoglio's famous pinochio Mass?
When they canonized the two Pope did they even look at how those popes thought about Liturgy?

[AugustineA]

The Holy Spirit guides the Church. If Bergoglio was chosen, he was chosen for a reason that will be revealed in time. God also chose Benedict who delighted in giving us the gift of the Summorum Pontificum and encouraged all Latin Catholics who should choose to celebrate the ancient and venerable extraordinary Mass. 

 

Trust in God, not in men brotha. :)

[arfink]

I clarified enough that I think there is a clear answer. In any case, flouting the rubrics of the liturgy is mortally sinful.

 

I had suspected as much, but can you provide citation for this? Is it bound to be such in canon law, or somewhere else? I'm genuinely curious on this one.

[Nihil Obstat]

I had suspected as much, but can you provide citation for this? Is it bound to be such in canon law, or somewhere else? I'm genuinely curious on this one.

Normally I could, but this one actually comes straight from the homily of (and personal conversations with) my priest.

Essentially his reasoning goes like this: sacred things are those things which we set aside which pertain more closely to the worship of God. As such they require greater reverence and are on our part, out of respect for their proximity to worship. The Mass itself is the most sacred, most set apart activity which we as humans on earth can approach. Therefore the Mass requires the absolute utmost reverence and respect. So much so that intentional disrespect towards it is, by its very nature, gravely sinful.

[arfink]

Normally I could, but this one actually comes straight from the homily of (and personal conversations with) my priest.

Essentially his reasoning goes like this: sacred things are those things which we set aside which pertain more closely to the worship of God. As such they require greater reverence and are on our part, out of respect for their proximity to worship. The Mass itself is the most sacred, most set apart activity which we as humans on earth can approach. Therefore the Mass requires the absolute utmost reverence and respect. So much so that intentional disrespect towards it is, by its very nature, gravely sinful.

 

This is an interesting set of assumptions, and assumes a great deal of knowledge and understanding (not to mention autonomy, which many pastors simply do not have even in their own parishes) just as a pre-requisite for meeting the usual mortal sin requirements of full knowledge, full consent, and grave matter.

 

I mean, just as an example, many pastors are largely unfamiliar with canon law as it pertains to liturgy, usually through defects in their formation.

 

I was curious if it was spelled out because many sins of grave matter are. I understand the reasoning, but I am not so sure on the application there.
 

[Nihil Obstat]

This is an interesting set of assumptions, and assumes a great deal of knowledge and understanding (not to mention autonomy, which many pastors simply do not have even in their own parishes) just as a pre-requisite for meeting the usual mortal sin requirements of full knowledge, full consent, and grave matter.

I mean, just as an example, many pastors are largely unfamiliar with canon law as it pertains to liturgy, usually through defects in their formation.

I was curious if it was spelled out because many sins of grave matter are. I understand the reasoning, but I am not so sure on the application there.

You would have a very difficult time characterizing a priest's ignorance of rubrics as being anything other than culpable ignorance.
In any case, I trust my priest's guidance.

[arfink]

You would have a very difficult time characterizing a priest's ignorance of rubrics as being anything other than culpable ignorance.
In any case, I trust my priest's guidance.

 

I trust it too. I'm just saying I've met some priests who thought... strange things, and I don't think it was culpable ignorance. :P
 

[Nihil Obstat]

All I can do is trust my priest. :proud:

[PhuturePriest]

I heard a girl today talk about when she went to her all-girl Catholic high school, her theology teacher was fired because she told all the girls to close their eyes and meditate, and said "Girls, Jesus is your lover. Open your legs and let God in."

 

Your bad liturgy argument is invalid.