PhuturePriest Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 and this is why we need better science education ugghhh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 and this is why we need better science education ugghhh Science is great and we definitely need more of it, but I think many people fail to distinguish between science and scientism. The former is a process of methodological investigation and experimentation, in and and of itself it is wholly neutral and unprejudiced ideally speaking. Of course, we don't live in an ideal world, and so the process has been confused with a particular outlook that is philosophically materialistic. The scientific method can't peer into whether Jesus had a miraculous birth or whether Adam was immediately created from the Earth, but materialism necessarily says such things are outright impossible. The key is purifying the process from the philosophy. As for why some Catholics reject Adam being created immediately as "unscientific" but choose to accept the Virgin Birth as history, beats me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Yea that allegory though....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) "For if you did believe Moses, you would perhaps believe me also; for he wrote of me. But if you do not believe his writings, how will you believe my words?" - Christ in John 5:46-47that's the money post right there....... Edited April 17, 2014 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Look into biocentrism....That's turns science upside down and opens up all sorts of possibilities.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) . Edited April 17, 2014 by Guest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Look into biocentrism....That's turns science upside down and opens up all sorts of possibilities.... *that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Why do you happen to be alive on this lush little planet with its warm sun and coconut trees? And at just the right time in the history of the universe? The surface of the molten earth has cooled, but it’s not too cold. And it’s not too hot; the sun hasn’t expanded enough to melt the Earth’s surface with its searing gas yet. Even setting aside the issue of being here and now, the probability of random physical laws and events leading to this point is less than 1 out of 100,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, equivalent to winning every lottery there ever was. Biocentrism, a new theory of everything, provides the missing piece. Although classical evolution does an excellent job of helping us understand the past, it fails to capture the driving force. Evolution needs to add the observer to the equation. Indeed, Niels Bohr, the great Nobel physicist, said, “When we measure something we are forcing an undetermined, undefined world to assume an experimental value. We are not ‘measuring’ the world, we are creating it.†The evolutionists are trying to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. They think we, the observer, are a mindless accident, debris left over from an explosion that appeared out of nowhere one day. Cosmologists propose that the universe was until recently a lifeless collection of particles bouncing against each other. It’s presented as a watch that somehow wound itself up, and that will unwind in a semi-predictable way. But they’ve shunted a critical component of the cosmos out of the way because they don’t know what to do with it. This component, consciousness, isn’t a small item. It’s an utter mystery, which we think has somehow arisen from molecules and goo. How did inert, random bits of carbon ever morph into that Japanese guy who always wins the hot-dog-eating contest? In short, attempts to explain the nature of the universe, its origins, and what’s really going on require an understanding of how the observer, our presence, plays a role. According to the current paradigm, the universe, and the laws of nature themselves, just popped out of nothingness. The story goes something like this: From the Big Bang until the present time, we’ve been incredibly lucky. This good fortune started from the moment of creation; if the Big Bang had been one-part-in-a-million more powerful, the cosmos would have rushed out too fast for the galaxies and stars to have developed. If the gravitational force were decreased by a hair, stars (including the Sun) wouldn’t have ignited. There are over 200 physical parameters like this that could have any value but happen to be exactly right for us to be here. Tweak any of them and you never existed. But our luck didn’t stop with the laws, forces, and constants of the universe. Sahelanthropus tchadensis, Orrorin tugenensis, Ardipithecus ramidus, Australopithecus anamensis, A. afarensis, Kenyanthropus platyops, A. africanus, A. garhi, A. sediba, A. aethiopicus, A. robustus, A. boisei, Homo habilis, H. georgicus, and H. erectus — among other hominid species — all went extinct. Even the Neanderthals went extinct. But alas, not us! Indeed, we happen to be the only species of Homininathat made it. Our special luck continues in the present time. Asteroids could strike Earth at any time, producing a surface-charring blast of heat, followed by years of dust that would freeze and/or starve us to death. Nearby stars could go supernova, their energy destroying the ozone layer and sterilizing the Earth with radiation. And a supervolcano could shroud the Earth in dust. These are just a few (out of billions) of things that could go wrong. The story of evolution reads just like “The Story of the Three Bears,†In the nursery tale, a little girl named Goldilocks enters a home occupied by three bears and tries different bowls of porridge; some are too hot, some are too cold. She also tries different chairs and beds, and every time, the third is “just right.†For 13.7 billion years we, too, have had chronic good luck. Virtually everything has been “just right.†It’s a fascinating story to tell children, but claiming that it’s all a “dumb†accident is no more helpful than saying “God did it.†Loren Eiseley, the great naturalist, once said that scientists “have not always been able to see that an old theory, given a hairsbreadth twist, might open an entirely new vista to the human reason.†The theory of evolution turns out to be the perfect case in hand. Amazingly, it all makes sense if you assume that the Big Bang is the end of the chain of physical causality, not the beginning. Indeed, according to biocentrism, it’s us, the observer, who create space and time (which is the reason you’re here now). Consider everything you see around you right now. Language and custom say it all lies outside us in the external world. Yet you can’t see anything through the vault of bone that surrounds your brain. Your eyes aren’t just portals to the world. In fact, everything you experience, including your body, is part of an active process occurring in your mind. Space and time are simply the mind’s tools for putting it all together. Theoretical physicists Stephen Hawking and Leonard Mlodinow recently stated: There is no way to remove the observer — us — from our perceptions of the world … In classical physics, the past is assumed to exist as a definite series of events, but according to quantum physics, the past, like the future, is indefinite and exists only as a spectrum of possibilities.†If we, the observer, collapse these possibilities (that is, the past and future) then where does that leave evolutionary theory, as described in our schoolbooks? Until the present is determined, how can there be a past? The past begins with the observer, us, not the other way around as we’ve been taught. The observer is the first cause, the vital force that collapses not only the present but the cascade of past spatio-temporal events we call evolution. “If, instead of identifying ourselves with the work,†said Ralph Waldo Emerson, “we feel that the soul of the workman streams through us, we shall find the peace of the morning dwelling first in our hearts, and the fathomless powers of gravity and chemistry, and, over them, of life, pre-existing within us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GClef Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 that's the money post right there....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) Why do you happen to be alive on this lush little planet with its warm sun and coconut trees? And at just the right time in the history of the universe? The surface of the molten earth has cooled, but it’s not too cold. And it’s not too hot; the sun hasn’t expanded enough to melt the Earth’s surface with its searing gas yet. Even setting aside the issue of being here and now, the probability of random physical laws and events leading to this point is less than 1 out of 100,000,000,000,000,000,000, 000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000, equivalent to winning every lottery there ever was. Biocentrism, a new theory of everything, provides the missing piece. Although classical evolution does an excellent job of helping us understand the past, it fails to capture the driving force. Evolution needs to add the observer to the equation. Indeed, Niels Bohr, the great Nobel physicist, said, “When we measure something we are forcing an undetermined, undefined world to assume an experimental value. We are not ‘measuring’ the world, we are creating it.†The evolutionists are trying to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. They think we, the observer, are a mindless accident, debris left over from an explosion that appeared out of nowhere one day. Cosmologists propose that the universe was until recently a lifeless collection of particles bouncing against each other. It’s presented as a watch that somehow wound itself up, and that will unwind in a semi-predictable way. But they’ve shunted a critical component of the cosmos out of the way because they don’t know what to do with it. This component, consciousness, isn’t a small item. It’s an utter mystery, which we think has somehow arisen from molecules and goo. How did inert, random bits of carbon ever morph into that Japanese guy who always wins the hot-dog-eating contest? In short, attempts to explain the nature of the universe, its origins, and what’s really going on require an understanding of how the observer, our presence, plays a role. According to the current paradigm, the universe, and the laws of nature themselves, just popped out of nothingness. The story goes something like this: From the Big Bang until the present time, we’ve been incredibly lucky. This good fortune started from the moment of creation; if the Big Bang had been one-part-in-a-million more powerful, the cosmos would have rushed out too fast for the galaxies and stars to have developed. If the gravitational force were decreased by a hair, stars (including the Sun) wouldn’t have ignited. There are over 200 physical parameters like this that could have any value but happen to be exactly right for us to be here. Tweak any of them and you never existed. But our luck didn’t stop with the laws, forces, and constants of the universe. Sahelanthropus tchadensis, Orrorin tugenensis, Ardipithecus ramidus, Australopithecus anamensis, A. afarensis, Kenyanthropus platyops, A. africanus, A. garhi, A. sediba, A. aethiopicus, A. robustus, A. boisei, Homo habilis, H. georgicus, and H. erectus — among other hominid species — all went extinct. Even the Neanderthals went extinct. But alas, not us! Indeed, we happen to be the only species of Homininathat made it. Our special luck continues in the present time. Asteroids could strike Earth at any time, producing a surface-charring blast of heat, followed by years of dust that would freeze and/or starve us to death. Nearby stars could go supernova, their energy destroying the ozone layer and sterilizing the Earth with radiation. And a supervolcano could shroud the Earth in dust. These are just a few (out of billions) of things that could go wrong. The story of evolution reads just like “The Story of the Three Bears,†In the nursery tale, a little girl named Goldilocks enters a home occupied by three bears and tries different bowls of porridge; some are too hot, some are too cold. She also tries different chairs and beds, and every time, the third is “just right.†For 13.7 billion years we, too, have had chronic good luck. Virtually everything has been “just right.†It’s a fascinating story to tell children, but claiming that it’s all a “dumb†accident is no more helpful than saying “God did it.†Loren Eiseley, the great naturalist, once said that scientists “have not always been able to see that an old theory, given a hairsbreadth twist, might open an entirely new vista to the human reason.†The theory of evolution turns out to be the perfect case in hand. Amazingly, it all makes sense if you assume that the Big Bang is the end of the chain of physical causality, not the beginning. Indeed, according to biocentrism, it’s us, the observer, who create space and time (which is the reason you’re here now). Consider everything you see around you right now. Language and custom say it all lies outside us in the external world. Yet you can’t see anything through the vault of bone that surrounds your brain. Your eyes aren’t just portals to the world. In fact, everything you experience, including your body, is part of an active process occurring in your mind. Space and time are simply the mind’s tools for putting it all together. Theoretical physicists Stephen Hawking and Leonard Mlodinow recently stated: There is no way to remove the observer — us — from our perceptions of the world … In classical physics, the past is assumed to exist as a definite series of events, but according to quantum physics, the past, like the future, is indefinite and exists only as a spectrum of possibilities.†If we, the observer, collapse these possibilities (that is, the past and future) then where does that leave evolutionary theory, as described in our schoolbooks? Until the present is determined, how can there be a past? The past begins with the observer, us, not the other way around as we’ve been taught. The observer is the first cause, the vital force that collapses not only the present but the cascade of past spatio-temporal events we call evolution. “If, instead of identifying ourselves with the work,†said Ralph Waldo Emerson, “we feel that the soul of the workman streams through us, we shall find the peace of the morning dwelling first in our hearts, and the fathomless powers of gravity and chemistry, and, over them, of life, pre-existing within us. No offense intended but a lot of that sounds like mumbo jumbo. God can (and does) exist with evolution as the main driving force behind the appearance of the diversity of life on Earth. An observer is not necessarily needed for evolution, however. All that needs to be present is a set of mutations or characteristics that give an organism a more likely chance of reproducing and passing the characteristics on. An observer only need exist in order to confirm this is happening, but it would happen regardless. Edited April 17, 2014 by tardis ad astra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregorMendel Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 (edited) Furthermore, I think we've found the latest synonym for intelligent design, albeit on a much grander scale, with 'Biocentrism' Edited April 17, 2014 by GregorMendel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 He's not saying God doesn't exist with evolution.....God exist because God exist....Biocentrism brings in recent experiments with quantum physics and how they are game changers such as the particle that acts differently depending on if it's being observed or not....Or how particles can be manipulated to change how they acted in the past..... Biocentrism isn't saying evolution isn't true or that it's faulty......Rather it's challenging what effect consciousness had/has on it and how "time" really operates......You say an observer only needs to exist to confirm this is happening but it would happen regardless.......I don't know if we know that for sure.......I like the point he makes about the odds of us being here right now at this specific time in the universe.......Never mind the odds of everything coming together perfectly so life could even exist.......But then on top of that were alive at this exact moment in time.......It's ridiculous when you think about it.........Now obviously theres problems with biocentrism and I will be the first to say alot of its ideas go against orthodox Christianity..........But at its base level it's very interesting especially when you see some of the experiments performed at the quantum physics level and the results they achieved..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 He's not saying God doesn't exist with evolution.....God exist because God exist....Biocentrism brings in recent experiments with quantum physics and how they are game changers such as the particle that acts differently depending on if it's being observed or not....Or how particles can be manipulated to change how they acted in the past..... Biocentrism isn't saying evolution isn't true or that it's faulty......Rather it's challenging what effect consciousness had/has on it and how "time" really operates......You say an observer only needs to exist to confirm this is happening but it would happen regardless.......I don't know if we know that for sure.......I like the point he makes about the odds of us being here right now at this specific time in the universe.......Never mind the odds of everything coming together perfectly so life could even exist.......But then on top of that were alive at this exact moment in time.......It's ridiculous when you think about it.........Now obviously theres problems with biocentrism and I will be the first to say alot of its ideas go against orthodox Christianity..........But at its base level it's very interesting especially when you see some of the experiments performed at the quantum physics level and the results they achieved..... Given billions of years, the odds of life forming aren't that small anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mortify ii Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 Given billions of years, the odds of life forming aren't that small anymore. :| Just a matter of time, eh? When was the last time life spontaneously generated? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fidei Defensor Posted April 17, 2014 Share Posted April 17, 2014 :| Just a matter of time, eh? When was the last time life spontaneously generated? It's not about spontaneous generation. It requires certain chemical precursors and other circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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