Discerning In Your Homeland

[chrysostom]

Someone mentioned this on another thread and I thought it interesting enough to hear some thoughts on this (no debate plz).

 

The community I just got in contact with and hope to join is across the Atlantic from where I am now.  There are similar communities that I have not looked into very hard which are in my country, though none have the very particular charism that I am so intensely attracted to.  In my case, also, I feel there's some leeway since I don't really have a hometown and have moved internationally several times.  That said:

 

Should you first look for communities near where you live? 

 

I haven't heard of this before but I guess it's a matter of prudence in any case.  Just interested in experiences or gently expressed opinions.

[SilentJoy]

I'm new...ignore...

 

Initially I didn't think that distance was too much of an issue when I was considering a community, other than the difficulty that might be involved in visiting. I was applying to a community that was only 9 hours away, and partway through, I suddenly realized that the distance felt like a VERY BIG issue, because it was too far of a drive for my family to come more than once or twice a year. I'd thought, "I'm leaving them anyway, does it matter?" but it mattered (at least that time). What made it most difficult was the fact that there was a community of the same Order right in my own diocese, and I was worried that if I ended up being accepted by the farther one, I'd always wonder (and fret, and grieve, etc.) if I could have been closer to home.

[Spem in alium]

There aren't as many religious orders established in my country as there are in the US, but I am looking at two particular orders here. One has a convent about an hour's drive away, the other has a house around twenty minutes from me. The first order, which was founded in my country, makes a rule of sending all their Sisters (or at the very least, most of them) to Asia for a time, while the second is international and would not send me abroad if i entered with them, though they may send me interstate.

 

Unfortunately, society here is really lacking in faith and awareness of God, and I feel a calling to serve people in my own country regardless of my eventual vocation.

[Hemma]

That was the point for me, too. There is just enough need in the own country!

 

But, nevertheless, Europe is small compared to Australia or the US. For me, "far away" means four hours of driving instead of 30 minutes or 1-2 hours.

 

[Spem in alium]

That was the point for me, too. There is just enough need in the own country!

 

But, nevertheless, Europe is small compared to Australia or the US. For me, "far away" means four hours of driving instead of 30 minutes or 1-2 hours.

Definitely!

Very true, Europe is considerably smaller. And having to make longer trips would mean less of an opportunity for visits. Even though you do have a desire to be within your own country or region, have you considered at all the possibility of an order in another part of the world?

[maximillion]

I was in the Uk and entered in France.

 

Not a huge distance but too far for my mum who was immobile. My sister visited three times in 14 years, but  visits from home were not at that time very encouraged.......

 

For me it wasn't an issue until I wanted to be exclaustrated, then it was a bigger issue. If family visits are important to you then I would seriously think about where God wants you - the too are less in opposition than people tend to think, and homesickness and missing family can mean the difference between the ability to stay or not.

 

I know we all enter hoping we have correctly discerned His will, but sometimes what He wants changes or we discern out. To anyone moving a big distance ( whatever than means to you) I would strongly recommend NOT burning all your bridges in your hometown or giving away the family silver right away!

It is hard to include plans for a return to the world while you are preparing to leave it, but PLEASE do so. They don't have to be extensive.

 

Re assign your flat let for 6 months if possible.

Don't close out all your bank accounts, and leave some dosh in there for use in an emergency (like having to leave the community). This is even more important if you happen to be half way across the world. Find out in advance if the community re-patriate you at their expense if you have to leave your country for a Motherhouse somewhere else, then discern out.

If you stay, then the account can be closed and the money be a nice unlooked for gift to the community at Vows (I mean Final Profession, not temporary.)

Tell people that you are leaving for the length of postulancy as a try out. This lessens the impact if the community turns out not to be the right fit, you have a ready made 'it didn't work out' which is easier to say to people than having to explain why you are home once more, than if you said previously that this was going to be forever.

 

If you do decide to enter somewhere else, do please do plenty of research on visa requirements, residency conditions etc. For example, until this year an 'ordinary resident' of the UK could get free health treatment. Being in RL met this requirement. Now the rules have changed.

[Hemma]

Definitely!

Very true, Europe is considerably smaller. And having to make longer trips would mean less of an opportunity for visits. Even though you do have a desire to be within your own country or region, have you considered at all the possibility of an order in another part of the world?

 

If so in the USA. But I think I couldn't leave all my relationships so thoroughly, nor leave all my books in good old Europe. (I have quite a lot of them, well suitable for nuns, and hope to bring them in my future monastery library, as my family wouldn't have enough space for them).

 

Actually moving to France or Italy would already mean "another part of the world", as it is another language, another culture... I'm not yet through with the monasteries where German is the common language. Even if you exclude the less likely places - I still have a dozen possibilities of possible places and two or three immediately likely places.

[Sr Mary Catharine OP]

It's not an absolute but yes, you should first look at what is in your own country. There are cultural differences that can have an impact on you more than you realize. Of course, this matters more or less depending on the person. It's something to be aware of and to think through. Even from Canada to the US there are cultural differences. One has to be prepared that you will assimilate something of the new culture and can't stay entirely aloof. Most communities are happy to have the enrichment of a new culture but they're not going to change who they are or where they live to accommodate you. God does provide the little things we need to integrate into the new culture. If you are entering a monastery that is another new culture, too!

 

Even in the US there are huge cultural differences. It's a BIG country! The south is very different from New England and CA is well, CA! :-)

 

Having said that, what really matters is where God is calling you. In leaving all to belong to God "family" in the same state is sometimes as far away as "family" in another country.

 

 

[Benedictus]

I would see whether God is calling you to somewhere local, or in your own country, before considering any major moves somewhere else. There are more issues involved with orders that are far off: expense involved in visiting the community, difficulties for family and friends being able to visit, cultural variations and potential language differences. Many orders also have a policy regarding this, such as only allowing people from certain countries to enter specific provinces. This is less of an issue with independent monasteries or orders with less of an international presence. But they may still ask you why you are interested in them, compared to another order with a similar charism more local to you. So you need to know what's local to you, how this is different, and why you are not attracted to them. It's easier if you can show you've made reasonable attempts or visits locally, but are then branching out as you don't feel called to the local ones. Expressing this in a way that doesn't prejudice their impression of you to an unfair extent can also be tricky, even if they may agree with some of your reasons. So it's worth thinking about your reasons and how you will express this to them if asked.
When I was visiting with the Franciscans they always asked me what attracted me to their specific expression of the charism compared to the other Franciscan branches. The same goes for Benedictine houses, especially if I visited between congregation houses. It's worth considering that a shared language still poses challenges. One of the Franciscan houses I visited had American, British, Irish and Polish brothers. Some of the biggest cultural struggles was between the American and British brothers -  often misreading behaviour or certain traits (usually as negative) and stuff like that.  A few of the British brothers found it hard to be sent for studies/formation in US for that reason, and a couple nearly left. I would imagine it could, give or take, be an added pressure in a country where language also varies.

 

[PhuturePriest]

That was the point for me, too. There is just enough need in the own country!

 

But, nevertheless, Europe is small compared to Australia or the US. For me, "far away" means four hours of driving instead of 30 minutes or 1-2 hours.

 

Four hours? I used to drive two and a half hours to see my friends about every month, and it wasn't a long drive at all. Where I live, driving eight hour's distance is a normal everyday thing. We don't consider a trip to be "long" unless you're driving 16 hours or more.

[Egeria]

I agree that culture is a big factor to take into consideration. And, although I agree that having a common language can mask subtle or not-so-subtle cultural differences, entering in foreign language context is no small thing.

 

However, there is also the reality, and the fact that God calls us where He will call us. One point that I would make is that it is, at least from my limited experience, much easier entering a community in a foreign country if the community itself is fairly international. It is more difficult being the only foreign sister (or one of a small minority) in a fairly homogenous community than being in a community where most of the sisters are in the same boat. Of course, multicultural communities have their own challenges, but it is certainly easier on the minorities.

 

Another point worth considering, especially if one was planning to enter an enclosed community in a foreign country, would be to explore spending some time (if possible) living in that country (perhaps spending some time working or as part of a volunteer programme) in order to get a better sense of the culture outside the monastery. As Sr Mary Catherine said, monasteries have their own cultures too, and it can sometimes be confusing not knowing what is the culture of a particular monastery and what is the culture of the country. And monasteries are not generally the best places to pick up the culture of a country which local sisters will take for granted.

 

FWIW...

[Spem in alium]

If so in the USA. But I think I couldn't leave all my relationships so thoroughly, nor leave all my books in good old Europe. (I have quite a lot of them, well suitable for nuns, and hope to bring them in my future monastery library, as my family wouldn't have enough space for them).

 

Actually moving to France or Italy would already mean "another part of the world", as it is another language, another culture... I'm not yet through with the monasteries where German is the common language. Even if you exclude the less likely places - I still have a dozen possibilities of possible places and two or three immediately likely places.

Yeah, the books factor in too, for sure! My family has no real interest in my books, so I'm hoping I can either take them with me if I enter or pass them on to someone who will like them and use them.
Of course - cultures and languages vary significantly across Europe. It's great that you still have a few immediate options to consider. :)

 

However, there is also the reality, and the fact that God calls us where He will call us. One point that I would make is that it is, at least from my limited experience, much easier entering a community in a foreign country if the community itself is fairly international. It is more difficult being the only foreign sister (or one of a small minority) in a fairly homogenous community than being in a community where most of the sisters are in the same boat. Of course, multicultural communities have their own challenges, but it is certainly easier on the minorities.

 

I can relate to this. One of the orders I'm looking at is international but most of the Sisters in my country are from Poland. This does make it hard for the Sisters, as while they are an international congregation (and were not founded in Poland) many people mistake them as being Polish-founded. I've actually had people ask me why I want to enter "a Polish order" given that I'm not from the country and don't speak the language, and some have said "You'll probably have to learn Polish just to survive in there." The Sisters have actually been really good with helping me to assimilate, and they've told me that I won't be forced to learn Polish (though it's not something I'd mind doing).

There are Sisters from other areas too (two from the Philippines), but only one or two or their Sisters who were born or raised here. So I would certainly be in a minority if I entered with them. It feels kind of like I'm entering a new culture because there is a language difference, but I feel comfortable with that.
 

Four hours? I used to drive two and a half hours to see my friends about every month, and it wasn't a long drive at all. Where I live, driving eight hour's distance is a normal everyday thing. We don't consider a trip to be "long" unless you're driving 16 hours or more.

Wow. You guys must spend a lot of time in the car.

[PhuturePriest]

Wow. You guys must spend a lot of time in the car.

 

My spiritual director drove 30,000 miles last year, simply driving back and forth to his parishes and going on trips.

[Spem in alium]

My spiritual director drove 30,000 miles last year, simply driving back and forth to his parishes and going on trips.

:eek: I hope he enjoys driving.

[PhuturePriest]

:eek: I hope he enjoys driving.

 

That's why he buys fancy sports cars -- he needs to have high-performance cars that won't break down after the first hundred thousand miles.

 

And I actually think he drove fifty thousand, not thirty.